Looting in Classic is very simple and just consists of being considerate and aware of the people in your party. If an item drops that you or a party member can equip and it’s an improvement, you would let that person roll Need and you would either just pass or roll Greed. If no one can equip it then everyone would still roll Greed. I see a lot of people mentioning Enchanting and DE, in that case it would still be Greed for everyone. You don’t “need” that item just so you can increase your Enchanting by 1. Only time you Need something related to professions is if it’s a recipe or something that is a reagent specific to your profession. Like sometimes chests contain ore and you could be a blacksmith and ask to get it for yourself. Really communication is key, be sure to talk with your party about what drops and if you’re not sure then just ask.
Once the game has been out for a while and you play enough with different people I’m sure you’ll start to pick up on how it generally works. You can sometimes go an entire dungeon not even needing to communicate because people understand what is and isn’t proper loot etiquette.
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Please read the entire thread before replying! It gets so redundant when you dont.
So the consensus here is clearly that in Classic you MUST as a group take a few moments before running into instances to establish ground rules, get acquainted, share/find relevant quests—god forbid we learn each others names, instead of “druid innervate me” or whatever.
Retail, and this stupid random group formation system has made people just run in without a word. Its terrible and I think its largely why we’re all so worried about how rolling will go everywhere but raids (as they’ll have that trading window).
Be friends, talk, play the game together. The best pieces of advice on this thread, imo, advocate communication, joining a guild you like, and simply not being a selfish jerk. We’re all here to play this game. If you want a game that gives you every single thing and makes you the biggest greatest hero of all time, consider a single-player game, or retail (whats the difference?). I advocated for no loor trading because of the thrill, but it also depends on community to make it fun.
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Wait, doesnt disenchanting creat enchanting reagents? Is that a contradiction? Im really just asking. It is a little grey. Maybe ask first?
This thread is pretty much pointless. Most of the people who will be ninja looting and ‘omg hunter weapon’ don’t even read the forums. Much less care about your definitions.
Just want to point out that Headmaster’s Charge (30 stamina) is literally the #2 BIS weapon for bear tanks in Phase 1. #1 BIS is a rare world drop that requires a lot of luck to get. Not “pre-raid BIS”, but BIS.
Feral druids can definitely need on that particular item, at least in Phase 1, since they should be farming it.
In Phase 2, a better weapon starts dropping in Dire Maul so that’s what they will focus on.
I would add players rolling need on items for a spec they are currently not playing
Example
“Hunter and a Shaman in a group”
Sham is healing
Dps mail piece drops
both need
Something like cloth might be up for grabs for everyone. Rogues and warriors may want it for first aid, mages and priests may want it for tailoring. That would be greed in that case. Things like random green items that no one wants would still be greeded by everyone. I don’t believe Enchanters can “need” green items just for their DE’ing.
I never really witnessed much ninja looting. In lower dungeons, people always rolled on personal upgrades. Anything else was a greed item. Chests normally went to a rogue who could pick them unless otherwise stated.
In higher dungeons, people generally established a loot rule before hand, or established an item they needed and checked if anyone else needed it. In many cases master loot was set.
In raids, master loot was ALWAYS set on boss fights. BoEs were handed off to the GM for DKP distribution, disenchanting, or whatever.
Sure, there was sometimes the, “I need that for an alt if anyone doesn’t mind” but I never saw much arguing about it.
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Superfluous. If I open that chest first - the stuff isn’t mine anyway. I’ll link gear into the party and ask if anyone actually needs it - and then give them said item. If the piece of gear is contested - then roll.
If there are Potions / Crafting Materials in there - same deal really.
I don’t see the need on rolling for who needs to open it. You roll on the gear / items - not who opens a lid.
If the player opens the chest and doesn’t link what’s inside then the problem becomes a Ninja.
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On my server, a few months after release when people were used to the game, BoE purple were open for need roll. It was known and accepted that everyone could roll need on a world drop BoE purple since everyone could use it for it’s rarity.
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For Strat live runs, I make it clear that everyone will be rolling need on Righteous Orbs.
Makes it easy to sort out, since we all want it them and they’re a material, not a profession schematic. Basically, akin to everyone having mining and rolling on a Dark Iron Ore deposit.
As for doing it on everything? I’m guessing you’re joking, but I’ll say no anyways. ![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
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Rolling need on any boe worth 50g or more should be standard practice in pugs. It is too easy to claim you need something to equip/use and just sell. The fairest system is to accept that every class will need expensive boes for pre-raid, and to treat any that drop as potential gold, as mentioned above. This system protects everyone from any boe ninjaing by default, and ends up being the most equitable. However, people are welcome to set different rules at their own risk before starting, or preferably run with trusted friends and guildies with whom you can pass around the items as needed to the benefit of all.
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I play on pserver. I haven’t come across the special pserver roll rule.
I dont care where you’re from, if you NEED roll on something you dont NEED. You’re a ninja
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So if a warlock is running scholomance for the sole purpose of obtaining Robes of the Void. They have a 7% drop rate. They’d need to run the instance 14 times just to see that BoE pattern drop. Then with your system, they’d still have a 20% chance at getting the item. If they lose. Then they’d need another 14 runs potentially.
Using your system, to guarantee a 100% chance at getting their preraid-BiS item it would require 70~ runs using the worst odds of losing every single time except for the last time. The pattern does sell for quite a bit.
At what point does it become better for that Warlock to not even waste their time with the dungeon? Just farm the gold and buy it off the auction house. So instead of using an RPG element of going into a dungeon, crafting your own gear to use, we’ve eliminated that. Now he just farms gold to buy it. Then they need to get the other mats which they’re going to need to farm gold or the items.
What about other patterns? Enchanting patterns? Are all patterns over 50 gold just for needing? Then why even bother running the dungeons for the patterns? It’s better to just farm the gold and buy it. That will become the most efficient way.
With your method why even bother doing dungeons for patterns? Just sit in Dire Maul all day killing lashers and getting gold.
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Its going to be the more efficient way to earn most boes, even non world drop like that recipe, regardless of the system. If the warlock wants to do it the RP way, earning it by direct drop from scholo, then nothing is stopping him from creating the run and reserving it, or running with guildies.
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A ninja is someone who knowingly violates the loot rules of a group, be they expressly stated rules or the unwritten rules of the community.
-or-
Someone who violates said rules out of ignorance, but is unrepentant of their actions.
Back when I played in 2006 I don’t recall many people reserving loot. Is that a relatively new thing? I don’t even remember it happening in TBC or WotLK.
Normally people just ran the dungeon and needed on what was an upgrade for their character. Like MS>OS and then if someone rolled on something they couldn’t use on that character. Blacklisted and to the forums with screenshots. If they do it enough times, no one would group with them.
To my understanding, it is very much a P-server thing. Land on a server with enough p-players, and this may become the norm.
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Well my point of view is from the private scene, and I don’t really see that method going away, I think its likely to spread. Reserve is usually only boes; flask recipes can be worth 1k quite easily, and hoesntly the potential for ninjaing is extremely strong there. Thats why I advicate the need/reserve system, its far from perfect, but in the end its the most equitable. I won’t lie, when that expensive boe drops which is your pre-bis (or bis), everyone rolls need and you lose, it feels bad but fair. But, when an expensive item that no one needs drops, and you roll greed trying to be a decent person, then 1-2 others roll need to sell; that feels much much worse. Reserving BOPs is really scummy, unless your heavily carrying, amd unfortunatly has become more common in the private scene
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The private scene is made up of an international community of like 100,000+ players on one server isn’t it? Like that Nost server had 150,000 people according to their information graph. So ninja’ing seems way easier there. So wouldn’t you just all roll need and not care? Rolling need seems like a great deterrent for ninjas when the server is full of ninjas.
In 2005, according to Warcraft Census, most realms had between 15,000 - 20,000 characters on them.
Just seems like rolling need to prevent ninjas is a failsafe against an enormous realm because let’s be honest with 150,000 players, no one is going to know who you are. But with 20,000 players. You stand out more.
Just seems like back then we didn’t need to reserve items or need everything. On my server, we had like 10,000 people, super small server. If you ninja’d an item. You weren’t getting a dungeon run for the rest of the day. Your guild heard about it too and you risked being kicked.
Maybe Classic will be different. Thanks for the insight though. I don’t play the private scene, so it’s nice to hear.