i’m noticing a trend now where someone super under geared is forming a heroic raid trying to get carried through. this is more than frustrating especially when they want to 30 man the raid and just accepts anyone in hopes of more loot dropping. I understand that i could just not join those. however most of the time i don’t find out the gear score until I’ve been in the raid and wiped on the same boss and notice they’re not pulling they’re own weight. most of the time they are unresponsive to chat as well and don’t know the mechanics. I feel normal should be a requirement at least before you’re even allowed into heroic at this point. like have the instance locked behind the achievement or something of the sort. It’s getting old joining a group and it ending up being a hard carry. Having Bis from last expansion is not enough to get you by in heroic raid.
This is solved by the universal community issue fix: go make friends and join a guild.
To form it? No, they can make a group and look for folks willing to carry for the purpose of not having to make their own groups and take initiative. If you don’t like it, just don’t run with that person
I’m sorry sir, some people haven’t been playing this game for 20 years. It is a legitimate concern that Wow lacks systems to teach and gate potential skill issues in end game content. The problem is this creates friction between newer/causal players and veteran players because one has a goal of progressing content without understanding how that makes the other’s weekly raid much harder and time consuming.
Its a tricky situation and I don’t know how Wow fixes it. One idea I had was an “MMR” style normal/heroic/mythic raid finder option. Around this system you could potentially build some incentive for higher MMR players to queue into lower content (Alternative rewards, a mentor system like FF14 with some kind of stretch goal, increased drops, etc…), This idea clearly has issues (it removes some of the autonomy of players to create there own solutions, something I really appreciate about wow) but the central problem is that players of varying skill levels are forced to do content together when pugging and it causes frustration.
You quite clearly haven’t read any tooltip, any quest text, or anything else of the information that gets provided to us as the players from NPCs in a very long time. Furthermore, it is a MMO.
A very common, and popular, method for learning… is from other players. Ergo…
“Find a guild” is more than a legitimate way to answer this type of topic.
No. If you want “MMR”, you go and play a PvP game or queue for PvP in WoW.
A MMR system for PvE content in a MMO environment makes absolutely zero sense, and WoW have several systems in place to help newer players as well as to interact with veteran players.
This topic was created because the OP joined a carry run for the group leader, seemingly didn’t realize or didn’t care, things most likely fell through, and then made a post about it on the forums.
Most of the stuff that they actually talk about and suggest… are things that have existed in the game before and was nearly universally hated as a lot of it made it a living hell to maintain or gear up any kind of an alt.
The long and short is that every critique you mentioned already have solutions in the game. Same goes for the OP’s points. As well as there being a very clear example of " this is a MMO - talking with other players and organizing in a group, raid, guild, or with your/by making friends is a solution to these problems."
uh, how am i going to get carried to new excellent gear if I can’t get carried at low ilvls? Like, you expecting me to play the game? I’m not here for that, I’m here for ilvl numbers and I can get that from other people doing all the work. der.
We’re all NPCs in sumwuns raid team simulator game
You couldn’t be bothered to make your own group, this is the price of convenience.
This is not the best way to argue your point, you weaken your argument when you say things like “You quite clearly haven’t read any tooltip, any quest text, or anything else of the information that gets provided to us as the players from NPCs in a very long time. Furthermore, it is a MMO.”.
“You quite clearly haven’t read any tooltip, any quest text, or anything else of the information that gets provided to us as the players from NPCs in a very long time.”
What a banger way to start a sentence, clearly looking for an argument. The reality is that most people don’t read. If your design is to force people to read, its bad design. A good majority of players have been playing this game for nearly 2 decades, they didn’t read to learn, they experienced the skill progression that has happened from 2004 to now over time. The real question here is how to do you do that for someone just coming into the game. I actually think delves are a good start.
“Furthermore, it is a MMO”
What does this even mean? There are so many different kinds of MMOs its silly to use this as a basis for your argument. There are actually MMOs that do a better job at teaching new players and they make the experience of the shared player world better for everyone. Would love for WOW to have this, I think it would help with toxicity.
Hey I don’t want any bad blood here. it’s weird how hostile wow players get when you bring up an ongoing issue.
No I don’t intend to be rude about it, however why is it that a guy with 570 item level can form a heroic raid group in the first place?
That’s my issue, he didn’t even go as far as to run normal or m0.
Heroic and mythic are meant to be the challenge you’re gearing for like most of us do. I Don’t think it is a horrible idea to lock the heroic portal behind the normal completion achievement.
For players who want to rush straight into Heroic or guilds that do, blasting through normal wont take that long.
It strikes me as strange that to do Heroic dungeons you have to meet a requirement but if i want to bring in a 500 ilvl toon into a raid where it affects up to 29 other players theres no bars against that.
Orwyn makes solid points, theres no reason to claim hes never read anything in world of warcraft and shoot down his suggestions.
Thats unproductive, us as a community (the wow community) should want this game to be the best it can be and not just complain every time an expansion comes out and continue to play for 12 hours a day.
I know i’m not the only person who has an issue with lower geared players forming the raid to get carried it’s
for one unfair to those who put in the time to get that gear to go raid
and two it just does not make sense to gate the easiest type of endgame content heroic dungeons and not one of the hardest types aka Heroic raid. (i know some will say heroic is easy but it’s technically on the harder scale.)