But there are Light elementals (the opposite of Voidwalkers, I imagine) in the Priest Order Hall.
11/13/2018 07:21 PMPosted by TotemfiendI mean I'm not so much looking at Sol or the other Lightspawns so much as I am wondering. Could a water elemental for example use light magic? Like could one, for all intents and purposes be a priest of the light?
Technically, any sentient creature could do this.
11/13/2018 07:21 PMPosted by TotemfiendCould a water elemental for example use light magic? Like could one, for all intents and purposes be a priest of the light?
I'm going to very tentatively say yes. For a couple reasons.
Draenei Shaman are said to see serving and balancing the elements as another way of worshipping the Light. What exactly that means is never elaborated on, but these Draenei Shaman do draw some kind of equivalency between the elements and the Light, somehow.
Chronicles 1 states that after the explosion of Light and Void that created the universe, sparks of Light fell throughout the cosmos, becoming different forms of life, the most common kind being elementals. So all elementals are born from a spark of Light.
Elementals are bound to the nature of their given element. They may be sentient, but they lack a capacity for free will.11/13/2018 07:23 PMPosted by Zarles11/13/2018 07:21 PMPosted by TotemfiendI mean I'm not so much looking at Sol or the other Lightspawns so much as I am wondering. Could a water elemental for example use light magic? Like could one, for all intents and purposes be a priest of the light?
Technically, any sentient creature could do this.
This may not be the case for older, stronger elementals who have had time to learn from mortals and free-willed beings, but it's certainly the situation for average ones.
11/13/2018 07:51 PMPosted by CantaloupeElementals are bound to the nature of their given element. They may be sentient, but they lack a capacity for free will.11/13/2018 07:23 PMPosted by Zarles...
Technically, any sentient creature could do this.
This may not be the case for older, stronger elementals who have had time to learn from mortals and free-willed beings, but it's certainly the situation for average ones.
If this is the case, what exactly does it mean to be bound to the nature of their element? Fire, water, and earth are all capable of some form of healing as well as destruction, wouldn't this mean the elementals have just as much free will as any other sentient creature? sure they still have instincts just as we do, but they aren't monolithic or entirely instinctual like an animal.
Although I don't think it's possible to say elementals don't have free will? Otherwise the entire concept of shamanism is bunk as without free will elements can't make decisions and could therefore never decide to help shaman? Plus the whole idea of goblin shamanism is based around the idea of making 'deals' with elementals? You can't do that without free will either right?
11/13/2018 08:31 PMPosted by TotemfiendOtherwise the entire concept of shamanism is bunk as without free will elements can't make decisions and could therefore never decide to help shaman? Plus the whole idea of goblin shamanism is based around the idea of making 'deals' with elementals? You can't do that without free will either right?
Elements and Elementals are different things.
Elements are the spirits, the things Shamans talk to and are bestowed gifts upon. Elementals, however, are manifestation of ideas and powers. Ragnaros is an Elemental, he is not an Element spirit unto himself.
Elementals are more akin to constructs and Elements are spirits.
11/13/2018 08:37 PMPosted by Ximothy11/13/2018 08:31 PMPosted by TotemfiendOtherwise the entire concept of shamanism is bunk as without free will elements can't make decisions and could therefore never decide to help shaman? Plus the whole idea of goblin shamanism is based around the idea of making 'deals' with elementals? You can't do that without free will either right?
Elements and Elementals are different things.
Elements are the spirits, the things Shamans talk to and are bestowed gifts upon. Elementals, however, are manifestation of ideas and powers. Ragnaros is an Elemental, he is not an Element spirit unto himself.
Elementals are more akin to constructs and Elements are spirits.
Doesn't this mean that the elements which are spirits are not a single entity but are instead multiple different personalities?
11/13/2018 07:51 PMPosted by CantaloupeElementals are bound to the nature of their given element. They may be sentient, but they lack a capacity for free will.11/13/2018 07:23 PMPosted by Zarles...
Technically, any sentient creature could do this.
This may not be the case for older, stronger elementals who have had time to learn from mortals and free-willed beings, but it's certainly the situation for average ones.
The more accurate view is that while intelligent elementals have free will, said will is constrained by a tunnel vision which makes them see and operate with powers and world view framed by their element.
11/13/2018 07:19 PMPosted by GrandbladeSol
Sol was a boss. Too bad he didn't make it past Legion. We could all use a little Sol in our lives.
11/13/2018 08:51 PMPosted by DrahlianaThe more accurate view is that while intelligent elementals have free will, said will is constrained by a tunnel vision which makes them see and operate with powers and world view framed by their element.
Basicly, Ragnaros had 100% free will when he wanted to burn the world tree, but he didn't see it as evil, he saw it as a massive pile of tinder he needed to burn.
It's a morality of the more of an element they have, the better everything will be. Fire Elementals burn stuff because fire burns, water elementals drown stuff because water drowns things, they choose when to do it, but fail to see that it is morally wrong.
Actually, looking at the fact that the draenor elementals are completely harmonious with each other, as well as the fact that our own elementals did in fact work together when the old gods were around (even if it was forced). In addition to the elementals themselves having factions within themselves (fire and wind factions were both having civil wars in Skywall/Firelands respectively) I most certainly am inclined to believe that the free will elementals have is the same sort we have.
Plus during legion the elemental lords willing worked together, which only further backs the idea that they war because they choose to, not because they have to.
Still not entirely sure this would allow them to use the light however…
To be fair, there is a fundamental difference between the Azeroth and Draenor elements.
The reason why Azeroth Elementals are so chaotic, and Draenor elementals are more balanced, is actually the result of how much Life energy there is.
Azeroth had a diminished Element of Life, thus leading to the Elements being unbalanced and chaotic, and the birth of the Elemental Lords. The World Soul ate a buch of the Element of Life, hence why Azeroth has this problem. Draenor, on the other hand, had an abundance of Life, because of a lack of a world soul, and so the Elements were far more in balance with one another, and there was no Elemental Lords on Draenor, at least no where near the same level as Azeroth’s.
It’s not like the Elementals choose to be chaotic or orderly, it’s really dependent on how balanced the various elements are with one another. The Elementals themselves don’t get to pick it.
Saw it in legion from light spawn thing
Yet in cata we did see the elementals choose to be orderly with one another. The choice is fully within their own hands. Sure maybe its a bit harder for them to make that choice due to Azeroth having less Life element but it is still possible.
Moreover we also see that the elementals themselves are not uniform, they don’t all have the same ideas or support one other unopposed as long as they are of the same element; this too implies free will. For example the civil wars in Skywall and Firelands during legion, if elementals can have civil wars with each other then they are fully capable of independent thought and civil discourse. If they choose not to exercise that diplomacy with each other that’s on them, but it doesn’t mean they don’t have free will.