I personally love mythic+ and probably always will. Depletion is another story, I should not get punished for failing to time a key. It makes people feel horrible when they make mistakes and promotes toxicity from the keyholder himself.
A large chunk of people I’ve talked to who don’t participate in m+ are simply scared of depleting someone’s key if they try. If you want to increase participation in m+ and reduce overall toxicity start here.
While I don’t see it as necessary, I’d be down for removing it. Losing a keystone level is pretty irrelevant anyway. Most people just pug into the keys they want to begin with, and the bigger loss is just not getting an IO/M+ Score boost from the failed run.
I mean what do you propose you put in place of it. The old depletion system meant that you got no gear from the end of the run. Granted that’s a fine system for when the season has been out for a couple months.
The only way a depletion system would work would be that of having it nerf the amount of gear you get at the end of the run. To one piece of loot, and then keeping the key vendor dude to be able to drop your key as needed. With the other idea I can think of being just giving a second chance at the run. Which even then is more than generous and would mean pugs would more than likely dissolve even more than they do now. Given it’s further reduces the consequences.
Unfortunately a depletion system would either have to have zero consequences, or a single minor consequence. Which if there is even ONE consequence then no one will want to do the run. Players would rather pug into someone else’s key. Than deal with any sort of consequence, as seen with legion keys when they would get depleted at the start of a season.
I don’t think they need to replace it with anything. If you fail to time a key it remains the same and if you complete changes to an equivalent level dungeon. I see no downside to this.
You’re already punished by having spent the time forming a group and attempting the key. Depletion is just a double punishment and totally uneccessary.
IMHO a key should only ever lower the level if you can’t complete the dungeon. Like someone leaves or you start the key and go out the front.
If you finish, even not in time the key should stay the same.
Finish in time for a upgrade.
I wouldn’t call losing an arbitrary number a bigger loss but that’s just me.
Having the key not deplete opens the doors for severe exploitation. The key holder would be able to not kick anyone for whatever reason and just “restart” the same key.
-Oh your dps isn’t high enough kicks and replace
-I dont like your route kicks and replace
-Oh we wiped lets just restart
-Insert any subjective reason kicks and replace
Keys not depleting also opens the doors to players getting carried higher and higher. They can literally redo a key until they get a group strong enough to carry them. You are supposed to lesrn from failure, not be rewarded for it.
This remains the case: The mass majority of players who want to remove depletion don’t even play M+ consistently.
^^^ +1
And that’s really it.
You should be punished. You failed.
Finishing the dungeon is not failing …
There are multiple conditions that need to be met to “Succeed” in M+.
-Timer
-Forces %
-All bosses dead
Getting the forces % and killing all of the bosses do not meet all the conditions. Therefore, a failure. Failing is not a boogeyman word and people need to stop being afraid to fail. People learn most from failure and self-reflection.
It most certainly is. You were expected to have 5 bosses down and 575 count done in 43m. You didn’t, you failed.
I mean… okay?
That’s the same as in Torghast. If you don’t like how a Torghast run is going, you cna just stop, kick folks, and start over.
Or, more relevant, if you’re in a raid group and you wipe on a boss, you can just say “okay buys, this ain’t happening, we’re trimming low DPS and then refill”.
My first AOTC in this game in fact was from me raid-leading a PUG in Highmaul and through a process of continuously “trimming the fat” put together a group that had enough DPS to meet the DPS checks in the intermission.
Why is M+ supposed to be an exception to that?
I think there are some forms of degeneracy with keys at sub-15 levels if they didn’t deplete, but if keys 16 and above, or even 20 above didn’t deplete, I would see it as purely upside and purely a good thing for the game.
Surviving until a boss’s hard enrage doesn’t mean you “won”. Same with M+ - it just meant your DPS was too low and you didn’t meet one of the win-conditions.
Removing key depletion doesn’t make people stay AND now you’ve also increased the odds the key holder himself leaves at the first sign of trouble.
nothing, not completing it in time or wasting time dealing with a bad group is more than enough.
Neither does keeping the depletion system in place. It promotes leavers actually.
So does having a key deplete. In a trolling mood? Join a key and leave when the timer starts. That feels great for everyone.
How so exactly? Only the key holder is penalised by key depletion. They leave cause it won’t be timed and that’ll reduce the rating they get. Or that the time and effort isn’t worth the reward at the end. Removing key depletion doesn’t mean the reward system or the timer is removed as well.
We have already discussed this particular point. It rarely happens.
Key depletion is one of the most innately toxic parts of the game.
Get rid of it. Give bonuses for timing, not punishments for not timing.
Try it for a season and see how much the M+ community grows and chills the eff out.