Hi all. I have a question about the future after BFA. My English isn’t perfect. I hope everyone will understand.
We all know Calia has a daughter. But we dont know where she is and we dont know his name. But, the fact is, Lordearon was a Capital city of the alliance before. Young Arthas was the friend of Variann, and there’s a grave in SW with the Lordearon symbol but no name. (probably Arthas’ grave or his father).
After BFA, the story will continue. So, what about a wedding between Calia’s daughter and Anduin?
We know Calia doesn’t want the lead of Lordaeron. But his daughter, probably yes. And the Alliance can take back Lordaeron after the war.
Lordaeron was THE Capital City of the original Alliance of Lordaeron (That’s why it was callled Capital City up to the day t hat Arthas decimated it’s inhabitants after killing his father.)
I think it’s possible for Taelia to be Calia’s daughter. Calia’s words in the novel may not be 100% canon. I do believe bits and pieces of, ‘Before the Storm,’ have been clarified as being incorrect. For example, Genn Greymane had a tail in the books.
Just seems strange to me to make up two new characters when one suffices. Maybe it was meant as a security net in case players reacted poorly to Taelia, or the idea of Calia’s daughter being Bolvar’s daughter. Test the waters so to speak so if Taelia doesn’t work because of her parentage they can bring out Calia’s daughter as another character.
I don’t think the book actually says that the footman was specifically from Lordaeron. She just fell in love with a footman in the army, as in, the Alliance’s army, an army which consists of soldiers from the various kingdoms.
And Bolvar was definitely in Lordaeron by virtue of the Stormwind refugee crisis in the First and Second Wars, of which one Mara Fordragon (possible relation) was said to have been the patron of.
The main sticking point isn’t whether Bolvar was an ambiguous footman but whether the “blight” that struck Southshore in Calia’s account was either the Forsaken bio-weapon or simply the symptom of the original Plague of Undeath (the decaying land we saw in Warcraft 3, and the Dead Scar in Quel’thalas). To this end, the book is actually somewhat confusingly vague and imprecise and sending mixed signals.
I’m fairly sure that Bolvar Fordragon is a Lordaeroni immigrant to Stormwind. He was a paladin during the Third World and resided in Lordaeron. That’s when he sent his daughter to Kul Tiras to be a ward to the Proudmoore family.
We know that Bolvar like most people of Stormwind is actually a Lordaroni. When the First War happened most of Stormwind’s population was wiped out. The survivors left in a few ships to Southshore and many lived there for years. Varian even came of age in Lordaeron and effectively grew up there. Most modern Stormwindians are mixed Lordaeroni/Stormwindian.
In the conclusion of the Second War. The Alliance of Lordaeron and in particular the nation of Lordaeron sent carpenters, engineers and immigrants from their country to retake and rebuild Stormwind and it’s provinces. Dalaran helped by building Nethergarde Keep and helped man it.
The majority of Stormwindian residents are actually either from Lordaeron or one of the other 7 kingdoms, Ironforge, Quel’thelas with a large High Elven population particularly in the Mage Quarter. We cant assume that Bolvar or the commoners are actually Stormwindian 100%. We know that when Varian invaded the Undercity he saw it as retaking a home city. In the War against the Lich king Humans rallied under Lordaeron banners and would shout, “For Lordaeron! For the Alliance!” Proof that for the humans there not Lordaeroni or Stormwindians they’re both and see it as a mandate to own both. Now the undead disagree, but even many undead question whether they can hold off the final death forever and even if they could. Would it be worth it?
Possibly. Though I think Mara Fordragon being described as the patron of the Stormwind refugees would indicate the Fordragon family originates from Stormwind primarily, assuming he wasn’t born there.
Naturally, that doesn’t mean that Bolvar was never in Lordaeron after the war ended. It’s commonplace for displaced citizens to resettle in their new lands. In fact we have pretty solid confirmation that Taelia being from Lordaeron would mean that Bolvar HAD to have been there for a significant portion of time, and the Third War might’ve been the impetus for him to return to Stormwind while sending Taelia to Kul Tiras for safety.
I’ve simply forgotten that Calia even had a daughter because all of that family except Calia died. I mean, we don’t know if that’s entirely true, but c’mon.
Otherwise, like others already said, we simply don’t know.
Taelia comes from Lorderon, and is the daughter of the former Regent Lord of Stormwind, Bolvar Fordragon. When the Scourge hit Lordaeron, Taelia lost her mother, and her father sent her to Kul Tiras to be raised away from the war.
This would suggest that at the very least, Bolvar was in Lorderon for a time, or even that Taelia has ancestral roots tied to Lorderon.
Furthermore, the use of the word lost might, in this case, substitute for death, it could literally mean that she lost her mother. In that, amidst the chaos of the war, the two were separated and her mother was lost to Taelia.
But what’s the timeline of when Calia had her daughter? I was under the impression it was before the Third War. Calia is two years older than Arthas to begin with, and the whole Third War thing happened when he was 24.
Supposedly the whole romance happened during a time when Terenas was putting a lot of attention on Arthas over her. If we assume this was around when he joined the Silver Hand and started getting close to Jaina, this would have been when he was 19 and she was 21, around year 15. Coincidentally, his ceremony to join the Order happened in Stormwind, and Calia was present for it.
Then if we go forward to the Third War, Calia’s daughter was at least cognizant by then, because the three of them wept together when they were reunited. Simultaneously, she was hiding her identity at this time. Of course, something happened and they were separated - The book is sketchy on when and how this happened, and whether it was the Forsaken or the Scourge. If we assume the latter and not the former, the father and daughter happened to be in a port where they might have escaped by sea to just about anywhere.
So, following the idea this is Talia and the father was Bolvar, they escape to Stormwind and she is sent as a ward to Kul Tiras for her safety. Or maybe they stop at Kul Tiras first and she’s left there, it doesn’t really matter.
Talia is then raised in Kul Tiras until now, year 33. And it just so happens that according to this timeline, she’d be 18. The same age as Anduin now, and exactly as old as she seems to be in the game.
Some other things also add up. The original Stormwind refugees fled by sea and landed at Southshore, and Bolvar’s (Supposed, not confirmed) mother was famous for helping them at this time. So it follows that he would have a connection to Southshore, and could feasibly have been staying there with his daughter.
The only thing that’s actually confusing is his status in society and the timeline surrounding that. Was he a citizen of Stormwind or Lordaeron? Which military did he actually belong to, at what time? When did he become a Paladin? How did he transition from someone lowly enough that Calia would be disgraced through her relationship to him, to someone trusted enough to become Stormwind’s reagent lord? That’s a pretty big jump, but then again those were pretty extreme times.
Overall though, it seems very possible that it was Bolvar. Some things hint towards it pretty strongly, and nothing directly contradicts it.
She continued. “No one recognized me. Everyone assumed I was dead. We were happy for a time. And then came the blight. We ran. I wasn’t about to leave my family again, but in the crowd we were separated. I stood in the middle of the street, screaming for them. Someone took pity on me, pulling me onto his horse and galloping past the limits of the town barely in time. “There was a cluster of refugees in the forest. So many of us waited, desperate for word of our loved ones. Sometimes prayers were answered, and there were reunions that were…” Calia bit her lip. “I prayed that my family, too, would be spared. But…” Her voice trailed off. “I never saw them again.” And then, with a realization that stopped his breathing with shock, Anduin understood why Calia had decided to befriend the Forsaken. Why, instead of seeing them as the destroyers of her city, her way of life, and all her family, she had chosen to identify with them.
It’s rather clear that it’s referring to the Forsaken destroying the town in Cata. Given that Bolvar was of course Lich King at this point, he probably wasn’t spending his weekends hanging out in Southshore with his family.
Except there’s many things wrong with that. First off, that takes “happy for a time” to actually mean eight years. Then, the Forsaken either killed or captured everyone that fled when they attacked, and there’s no record they raised anybody. As such, her desire for them to have become Forsaken - The very people who would have killed and raised them - Rather than Scourge (Who would supposedly have had nothing to do with the event to begin with), is completely nonsensical from both a motivation and timeline perspective.
In short, the entire section makes no sense if we take word blight to mean the Forsaken’s blight. However, that isn’t the only usage of the term.
https :// wow. gamepedia . com/ Blight_(plague)
So, it very well could have been the Scourge she was referring to. Which fits much, much more with everything she’s saying.
And besides all that, the idea that Taelia is Calia’s daughter makes the most sense narratively speaking. BtS sets up that Calia had a daughter with an unnamed soldier who she lost in Lordaeron during the Scourge invasion. Then in BfA we meet Taelia, the daughter of a (Now) important soldier who lost her unnamed mother in Lordaeron during the Scourge invasion.
These two characters should be the same age and have practically the same exact stories, which now coincidentally involve all of the same characters because Bolvar took Calia’s brother’s position as the Lich King and she too is now Undead. In terms of a story, it doesn’t make sense for these to be two different people.
FFS, Calia and Taelia even have reminiscent names.
There’s also no record that the Scourge attacked Southshore at all. It took the Argents like 7 years to somewhat clean up parts of the Plaguelands, but somehow Southshore fully recovered and rebuilt, all on its own, in…what, 4 years? And nobody ever talks about that time the entire town was destroyed?
It also straight up says that the Forsaken destroyed “her city, her way of life, and her family”. What else could this be referring to?
What’s easier to believe - that when Calia describes a blight attack she means the well known Forsaken substance used in the well known Forsaken attack on Southshore, or that (despite using the word Scourge like 2 paragraphs ago) she suddenly switches to an obscure, barely-used term that hasn’t been mentioned in a decade to describe an attack that has never before even been implied to have happened?
As for it being 8 years, we don’t actually know when she got to Southshore. Could’ve taken her a while, and even then, why can’t it be 8 years? “A while” is about as unspecific as you can get.
You also then have to explain how Bolvar somehow went from Lordaeronian footman to “lets put this guy in charge of all of Stormwind” in a few years. Or how she conveniently never heard anyone talk about Bolvar after the separation and never asked anyone about him. Or how Bolvar was apparently sending letters to Taelia up until his death but never once told her about Calia, or anyone about Calia, ever. You’d think him being married to the heir to the Kingdom of Lordaeron would’ve been worth mentioning, politically. Or why, in Vanilla, Southshore has a graveyard full of people in it that the Scourge just…left there, for some reason
It’s just got too many gaps you have to bend over backwards to explain.
Anduin understood why Calia had decided to befriend the Forsaken. Why, instead of seeing them as the destroyers of her city, her way of life, and all her family this line you posted too, why wouldnt it say undead or scourge if it wanted not to be forsaken
Not really. Doesn’t name drop the Forsaken anywhere, only “the blight” which can actually refer to several things. Also take into account that the phrasing in the book implies that she met Alonsus Faol AFTER this incident, and with meeting him came the realization that the Forsaken weren’t Scourge (and apparently “dying as Scourge” was a concern at the Southshore attack Calia references, which would not be possible if it was the Forsaken behind the incident).
Ultimately, the book is rather unhelpfully ambiguous and vague, more than you’re giving it credit for.
Hillsbrad is the location of Dalaran, the location of several crucial battles between the Alliance and the Scourge, including the Siege of Dalaran against Antonidas, and Garithos’ resistance, as well south from Andorhal, the distribution center for the plague and an area the Legion double tapped once it invaded. It’d be exceptionally odd if the towns of Southshore and Hillsbrad were entirely untouched by any sort of onslaught, especially given Tarren Mill’s state in Vanilla being a clear indicator of having fallen to the influence of undeath.
But it would be inaccurate to say that it had no help in recovery efforts. It’d be very sensible if Garithos’ presence was a boon and a buffer zone against the undead, and the recovering Kirin Tor obviously would’ve been able to lend a hand.
That the UNDEAD are the destroyers of her city, way of life, and family? Especially since that the UNDEAD could refer to both Scourge and Forsaken, and you could equally say that the Scourge had a bigger hand in destroying Capital City (her city), her way of life (as a princess), and certain members of her family (her father and brother).
Shot in the dark, maybe its the same thing that happened with Garithos, only it was actually good. Wartime could’ve easily made Bolvar a hero, and the drastic loss of leadership to the Scourge would’ve been a perfect opportunity to rise up the ranks (as Garithos did to everyone’s detriment). I mean, Calia did mention her husband was going to be elevated into nobility as well, that might also be a factor.
Shot in the dark again, maybe she doesn’t have access to Azerothian internet in the Scourge infested lands of Lordaeron slumming with Faol. What indication would she have had that her husband might’ve risen to a regent lord in Stormwind?
Shot in the Dark III, the Reckoning. Taelia just flat out doesn’t know about her possible royal lineage because Calia explicitly said they were keeping that on the down low. I don’t know about you, but if you want to keep your kid’s royalty secret, you probably don’t tell the kid until they’re of the age not to idly brag about it via chit chat.
It might be worth mentioning, if it wasn’t out of wedlock, or between different classes, or resulted in a child. Seriously, Calia does say that they kept this all on the down low, and if you know anything about nobility and lineages in real life back in history, you’d have some ideas why. It’s a big no no. Duke Ferdinand married a lesser noble, and that STILL caused scandal that plagued his children.
Could’ve been filled with bodies retrieved after everything cooled down. I mean, you note how ALL the places in Lordaeron have graves, right? The Scourge is allowed to miss a few places.
It helps to try and figure out the answers for yourself before you declare it requiring to “bend over backwards”. I don’t think any answers so far require much stretching. Just thought.
That the UNDEAD are the destroyers of her city,way of life,and family?Especially since that theUNDEAD could refer to both Scourge andForsaken,and you could equally say that theScourge had a bigger hand in destroying CapitalCity (her city),her way of life (as a princess),andcertain members of her family (her father andbrother).
I mean it…pretty explicitly uses the word Forsaken. It’s right there in the quote. I have no idea where you’re getting the word “undead” from.
EDIT: I have no idea how this ended up as the reply to a later post.