Actually moving the Four Horsemen as the leaders of the Forsaken wouldn’t be the worst idea
And balancing the Alliance-leaning tendencies of the Silver Hand by making the Ebon Blade Hode-leaning.
Pretty sure this is the point. Gazlowe represents the return to the initial conception of the Goblins. The way he ran Ratchet and the Steamwheedle was the same why he did in W2-W3 and it was the Bilgewater that was pretty ruthless, capitalist and borderline criminal.
Each Cartel was vastly different in operation and management, so it’s unfair to compare them.
My only objection to it was that the Steamwheedle should of been the Goblin’s AR.
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Lead by Captain America though. Scratches head.
Bolvar I suspect won’t come out of the Shadowlands tbh
I don’t think so each cartel was that way in WoW. The war of pace is part of this. The writers just seem rather lazy nowadays, don’t understand the world and everything has nice. We also don’t have Gazlowes suicide bombers any longer (for obvious reasons).
Apparently Ion also stated today that he’s excited to see the community speculate as to what is next for Sylvanas
Meaning
- It’s a cliffhanger with ambiguity
- She isn’t dead (and disembodied) or dead dead (and cease to exist)
- He finds amusement in community chaos
I’m genuinely exhausted.
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I mean she hasn’t done anything and you already want her die again? Some of you guys can’t be pleased or happy with anything.
What is a “real” Forsaken?
There have been several generations of Forsaken at this point and the only thing they’ve ever had in common is being undead.
Please explain to me what more is required to be a “real” Forsaken.
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New lore interview
I would assume the sticking point would be that the commanality between most Forsaken is:
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Reanimated by dark magics
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Rejected by their former friends and family.
Considering she is a light zombie and never even had to deal with a shred of external loathing for her current condition, I could see the argument that she’s not really a “True” Forsaken.
I think the bigger point is more that she’s been awkwardly shoehorned into the Forsaken story more than anything relating to that, however.
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Others have phrased this better than me, but I’ll try to explain some of the biggest issues that go beyond aesthetics.
There’s a lot that’s wrong with Calia, honestly. One of them being she’s basically Anduin.
When you break down Anduin’s position within the Alliance, a lot of it comes down to the fact that he became their leader through hereditary claim, despite High King supposedly being an earned, military position. This is a discussion in itself, but Calia is similarly a problem in this way.
Sylvanas saved the Forsaken from the Lich King as a person who suffered equally alongside them. She became their ruler by her own merit.
Calia would “save” them as a person who has not suffered the way they have. If the narrative framed Calia ruling them as a good thing, it would be saying “white savior hereditary monarchy figures are better than those who came to power by merit”.
I’m not even a fan of Sylvanas, but I greatly prefer her to female undead Anduin.
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There are many criticisms to be had about the story post-MOP, which is really where I think we see a departure in the way the story is crafted and delivered. To say that she’s shoehorned is the least of it, but that seems to be the way Blizzard does things now.
I won’t say it’s not weird that she’s been reanimated via the Light, I just don’t think it comes without some degree of struggle or turmoil. There are humans who were delighted to ascend into undeath as Liches. What the individual perceives their condition to be and how they react to it doesn’t seem like a very strong way to define what is and is not a “true” Forsaken.
People have accepted that Zeliek was a Paladin so devout in his faith that the Light answered him in undeath. It’s not like there isn’t a precedent to suggest that things may go further than that.
Sylvanas has also clearly departed from a lot of what made her that leadership figure that the Forsaken needed, and a lot of that was done by reframing her motivations as far back as her agenda in Silverpine. That is the most egregious thing about this iteration of Sylvanas-- it unravels a previously understood impression we had no ability to discern not genuine.
Having some undefined perquisite quality of suffering just opens up a can of worms that I don’t find compelling.
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Those are two very different things though.
Faith is one thing. Animating undead is a different story.
Even worse Calia was made in to a doll that will never rot. Her look, background and theme as light zombie are not fitting to the Forsaken. I think Calia and her theme are hurting the Forsaken.
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I don’t think we know that about Calia yet. The way Light interacts with the Undead is already weird enough, and apparently a Forsaken priest that channels the Light enough can restore his flesh to the point that he can feel the maggots in his skin. This stuff really just seems like it has whatever properties the current writer decides that it does.
It’s not like the same isn’t true for Sylvanas. By all appearances she looks just as doll-like as Calia, and it isn’t until there is attention drawn to descriptions in passing in some of the books that suggest she’s anything but. I remember a reaction of surprise from the community when someone actually described her skin as snake-like and dry, mostly because someone finally took the time to clarify what people already mostly presumed but had been left rather vague.
At any rate, I can’t find any indication that she won’t ever decay, rot, or will be anything less than preserved. I’ve probably just missed it, but if you want to point it out, go for it.
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It’s not. Yes she was always the pretty undead. But even for her it was never lore that she would never rot. For Calia it literally is written in a novel.
It’s 1:1 in Before the Storm.
What don’t we know about Calia? How negative she will be to the Forsaken? Fair enough, but negative without any doubt with her theme. She doesn’t fit at all.
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I’m saying we don’t know that she isn’t decaying. I haven’t found anything citing that she is going to stay perfectly preserved.
Not that it means anything. Being undead isn’t necessarily about constantly rotting. Or even being magical. Vampires are considered classically undead monsters. Ghosts and spirits suggest that being undead isn’t even about the body at all.
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Like I wrote. It’s 1:1 in Before the Storm after Calias resurrection. She won’t decay.
Not put Calia Next to any of those, it next in to Revendreth. She does not fit.
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Her wiki page makes several references to Before the Storm and they don’t mention her biology much except for her eyes. Do you know where it is in the book?
I’m not talking about the Venthyr, I’m talking about classical vampires like Dracula. They were undead, but they did not decay, and depending on the interpretation, quite attractive and even capable seducers.
The point that I’m making is that rotting and decay is not a prerequisite to be undead so it’s not really a great way to say that Calia is not in theme. It’s fair to gripe that being infused with the Light is contradictory in theme, but very few people have an issue with the Undead that wield the Light, I’m not really sure why this is that much different.
Right at her resurrection. I would have to read trough it again to get the page.
Of course, but you also know this was a major complaint about Sylvanas and it’s not the main point. It’s important though.
The main point is really: She does not fit, not belong and yes her theme will hurt the Forsaken.
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People have a very difficult time defining what the Forsaken theme is in the first place. I can’t speak for everyone, so here’s mine in the simplest terms:
The Forsaken are a group of reanimated dead trying to carve out a place for themselves in Azeroth.
That is what I think the Forsaken are, that is what I think they should be, and I don’t see how Calia contradicts it.
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