It’s equally applicable to old raids though if old raids are like classic and have powerful loot that stays with you most of the expansion or even all of it
Imagine you could spam gruul’s lair in T5, nobody would ever do it again in T6, guess maybe new guilds or guilds that recruited a fresh player but definitely wouldn’t nearly be as alive
Why would that be a problem? And also Gruul’s lair was a short run not a real raid.
So pretty bad comparison to a full MC or BWL run when you’re in AQ or Naxx.
It depends on what you consider is a problem then
I’m not gonna lie I don’t enjoy running gruul’s lair for a year trying to get your token warrior a dst only for him to quit a couple weeks after getting it but I thought we were operating under the context that we want people to be running old raid tiers consistently throughout the expansion
I’m just saying if you did no raid lockouts that’d be the result, personally don’t really care because it’d never happen lmao
Then again I thought they wouldn’t ban GDKPs but here we are
that was me but as i have thought about it more it would be bad and i hope they dont do anything to the raid lockouts
Lets use SoD as an example so MC BWL AQ and naxx all have 3 day lockout and then SE has a 7 day lock out
just running naxx and SE guilds would need 3 separate raid days let alone if you add AQ into the mix
i loved running gruuls as GDKPs for when that trinket dropped
The whole people running old raid tiers throughout the expansion never really played out though.
I do agree that spamming old content would be terrible with no lockout but like someone suggested just reducing that lockout makes it more accessible to pugs.
It’s kinda the nature of the hamster wheel, most of your previous tier gear gets replaced by the current tier, it takes an exceptionally strong item present in the first tier to get people to run it in later tiers
DST and thunder fury are two examples and that’s why binding runs and gruuls happen the entire expansion
You did something intelligent which is asking the question of is it a problem that old raid tiers get largely irrelevant (hence why people stop running them), that’s a very good design question to ask/answer so I’ll promote you up from baboon
Correct but these are two very targeted runs not full runs of the entire tier.
Eh I think the length does play a factor in selling it to the raid group but if a binding dropped off say Rag instead of baron I still think people would do the full run
I think the value of the item is directly proportional to peoples’ willingness to farm it
In a guild it depends
Since there are other really good items why wouldn’t you run the whole raid?
We ran MC even in naxx because of BRE in 2019 and stuff like that, when r14 wasn’t prebis gear like anni
Mc takes 30 minutes
For sure if the binding dropped of Rags guilds would farm it because thunderfury is just that good in vanilla.
LOL it was so good it had to be nerfed in TBC.
But then that is a design decision putting items so OP in old content they have to be farmed. Thunderfury falls into that category not many other items do, certainly not things like ToEP or mageblade.
In phase 6 no, but you still have items like BRE and accuria, which are always good
I don’t know why you are trying to dodge the point by bringing up mageblade
If it was only bwl patch you’d still be farming mageblades.
What about alt raids?
Pugs with lower gear players
Again you’re missing the point entirely, either that or dodging the point
Yeah I couldn’t comment on that part of your conversation because my 2019/2020 guild was as sweaty as they come, worlds 2nd fastest naxx at one point, consistently top 3/2/1 NA speed runs, and even we didn’t do full MC runs for those trinkets
We just recruited mages that already had those items
That being said that was just my guild, I have no doubt some guild may have done it like Laz claims or even pugs/alt runs
I was in a more casual guild but we did get Naxx. And yeah the experience was the same, other than thunderfury we weren’t doing older runs.
We were doing current tier. Not sure what guild Laz is in that has infinite to run old content just for everyone to get that one item when it doesn’t help current progression.
Because we didn’t always have 1 roster in 1 raid
We slipped in pvp alts and we were very much a pvp oriented guild and there was no “progression” in the sense you’re thinking
Most of us had already done naxx a billion times before.
Old raid runs were literally to gear alts, split runs for whatever, etc
Also, not every guild have identical rosters and identical gear. You are arguing semantics when the variables are endless
In 2019, your guild would be gearing mages with TOEP, in my guild we gave that ish to locks and shamans so we could terrorize brm/crater
I mean pugs did happen for older tiers constantly in 2020, and that’s primarily because the loot was good enough to justify it
I remember I got my qsr on my prebis horde warrior in phase 6 and people were maaadddd in that pug (but I was full world buffed so they let it slide a bit)
Also this is a big thing too
our guild was very small compared to others, we only had 2 splits and we were probably only 50-60 people on roster but these people all had several of the same class so our splits were very consistent/if we needed old tier gear we sent our mains to GDKPs to buy it and could fill on our alts in splits
Oh for sure those pugs do happen, The OP’s idea is to make those pugs more common.
I don’t think completely removing the lockout would be ideal but going to a shorter lockout might be okay.
Yeah, exactly. Not every guild had the same order of operations
The loot we handed out would have caused a fissure in most pve guilds
Handing a shaman robe of volatile, toep, mishundare and lokamir immediately and nobody even complained because our guild had an entirely different mindset
We did hand out the proper pve items to their respective classes overall but we made exceptions for your usual pvp stuff.
We also had plenty of r14 melee
We knew we were clearing anyways. Obviously the gear distribution was tightened up as you go into aq and naxx tho, but those early tiers are whatever unless your guild is for speed
If you made it into a ZG like lockout it might be okay? Maybe? Idk not really a whole lot to go off to say for sure, ZA was still a thing during swp but 10 man vs 40 man is a bad comparison