and went directly into the maw…inside the shadowlands and buffed sylvanas, yeah, i know.
Who says that mogu normally ends automatically in Maldraxxus? As I said, it depends on your personality where you end up. i think surely this will be the normal standard procedure:
"Troll soul arrives, has a bwonsamdi flagg and arbiter just says: “Other side”
But that simply does not work at present.
They didn’t. Becuase the souls went to his realm, this is why Bwonsamdi said that he sensed how his power was growing. If he wouldn’t get constant soul flow he wouldn’t sense increase of power.
The only exception was Vol’Jin. But the rest? Salazane, the little girl and her horrible mother? They went directly to him. Same goes with Zalazane.
4 Likes
then let us wait on shadowlands, you´ll see what i mean^^
Maybe that’s the answer. He is a spirit healer in Zandalar but also has a place in Shadowlands so he can transfer souls directly there if they die in Zandalar.
My job is not to convince anyone of you, I just post what is currently on the Alpha and what we know so far about the machinery of death and how it works usually
Now you’re arguing that a Mogu would naturally go to the keeper of TROLL souls?
Bwonsamdi can game the system if souls go to the arbiter. If it’s a simple “flagging” system that’s still him gimping other realms by taking souls that would otherwise go to them.
And we are showing you evidence that Bwonsamdi is not as affected by those rules as others. Where’s Rastakhan in Shadowlands?
But what you write is not to convince me, you have to write it to blizzard, they represent it atm so. it doesn’t matter what you thought you knew before, that’s how Atm in Shadowlands is.
No, I’m asking you how you think you know where these moguls come from and…safely and definitely say that they end up in Maldraxxus.
No I don’t.
Because I’m already using that they wrote in Cataclysm, Shadows of the Horde, and BFA.
You use Elune as the reason for Ysera being in Ardenweld instead of the Maw, but completely ignore the possibility that Bwonsamdi could be capable of something similar through his deals.
Maldraxxus is an example. The Mogu in question served in the Thunder King’s army during Shadows of the Horde, which made me pick the warmongering afterlife.
Mogu would not naturally go to Bwonsamdi based on our understanding of both Bwonsamdi and the death system. They could go literally anywhere else, but instead they go to him after Vol’jin kills them. Not all Mogu, just the ones killed by Vol’jin. That’s Bwonsamdi claiming them.
8 Likes
It is arguable Bwon has no inherent claim on all troll souls, those not dedicated to him would go through the normal soul pathway.
It seem to me his Nercropolis is a direct door to the Other Side. The Skybox changing around there to a unique one seems to me a good suggestion that the area is not quite part of normal Azeroth, but sort of an in-between place under his influence.
Bwon may have a very specific deal with Arbiter where he has to have a detailed accounting of EVERY SINGLE soul he takes out of er… circulation from the normal soul stream going to Oribos. That be why he freaked out at the idea of loosing track of Vol’jin. His boss would be very mad he had voided the terms of his contract.
1 Like
'm telling you right now it’s ATM, in the Alpha, I don’t control the story, why do you want to prove it to me?
I did by using past evidence that does not conflict with the current direction. Bwonsamdi has claimed souls directly in the past, as recently as BFA.
He has shown no concern over the disruption of the flow of souls, which he would be acutely aware of. He shows no concern for Rastakhan’s or other Troll souls in the Alpha, which implies he either already has them or doesn’t care about them (which is unlikely given how he freaked about Vol’jin). He has taken Loa souls into urns, which he would normally not have claim to. Vol’jin was thrown into the Maw directly by Mueh’zala and implied to be rescued by Rezan by Bwonsamdi himself in datamined text. This would mean the Loa have quite a sway over the realm of death.
You’re using just as much conjecture as I am because you have zero evidence besides the Maw, only mine is backed by years of previous lore.
Which isn’t even related to the original argument of him being able to bypass the Arbiter one way or another.
11 Likes
The horde player also owe Bwonsamdi a million souls. Based on previous lore those go straight to Bwonsamdi, not through the normal process of death. Remember that souls carry anima which is what powers the shadowlands so when Bwonsamdi makes a deal for a soul he is at least partially after the anima.
Why would he make deals that he has to give something for to merely collect and deliver a soul to someone else. What would he get out of that?
5 Likes
I think you’re right. Isn’t there an identical Necropolis in Ardenweald too? It seems to exist in both realms at once.
I’m also inclined to believe this but I don’t think we can say for sure. We do know that the Farraki don’t worship him since they have Mueh’zala instead, so while my gut says he doesn’t get Farraki souls, we don’t actually know that for sure.
Bwonsamdi clearly circumvents the normal way souls enter the afterlife. We see him do it all through BfA and the only soul he lost was one that was specifically stolen from him by another death loa. Nothing about his story in BfA makes sense if his realm was being drained by the Maw the same as the other realms we’re going to visit in Shadowlands.
How he gets away with this isn’t yet known.
It is worth noting that Bwonsamdi isn’t the only loa with their own pocket dimension in the Shadowlands. Quetz’lun, the Drakkari wind serpent loa, created her own Hell that she dragged the traitorous souls of her former priests into when she died. I can’t imagine she contacted the Arbiter and got permission in her spur of the moment, reflexive attempt to punish her killers. So maybe making your own pocket dimension in the Shadowlands isn’t that difficult for god-like beings to accomplish.
Bwonsamdi, Quetz’lun, Helya, Elune, and Odyn all have methods of snatching up souls for their own purposes. Shoot, mortal necromancers do this all the time. It is the basic means of how necromancy happens.
So it could well be a fact that it isn’t nearly as hard to steal a soul from the Arbiter as we think it is.
12 Likes
This is what I was going to mention. We have the specific example of Odyn bypassing the Arbiter. His val’kyr snatch up worthy souls and bring them to the Halls of Valor to become Valarjar. Similarly, Arthas’ val’kyr snatch up souls of the recently dead and bring them back to create undead. Bwonsamdi is just one more example of bypassing the Arbiter.
2 Likes
Could be that the Arbiter is a “default” route that souls go through if no one else has dibs on them for some other reason. So rather than some inexorable grip on all souls, that’s just the path of least resistance. Think of it like gravity - easy to overcome in individual instances, but working on all things at all times, so impossible to thwart in the whole.
2 Likes
This seems pretty likely to me. The thing that broke is that the “pull” of the Shadowlands is now going straight to the Maw rather than bringing souls to the Arbiter to judge where to send them. But necromancy seems to still work fine. We see Bwonsamdi and Bolvar use some in BfA. None of the beings with their own methods of taking souls seem troubled by it either.
It’d even explain why Sylvanas wants Bwonsamdi dead. Kill him and he’s no longer poaching souls that are otherwise bound for the Maw. If she’s lucky killing him might even break Da Otha Side and send every troll who has ever lived to the Maw to empower the Jailer.
That’d be quite the boost.
8 Likes
Odyn does not really ‘bypass’ the Arbiter so much as snatch souls before the Kyrians become aware of them and dispatch someone to collect by using his own fake Kyrians. Those same Val’kyr seem responsible for sending unworthy souls off to Helheim instead of releasing them to pass on.
Arthas’ Val’kyr were imitations of imitations, honestly, and likely worked the same way, snatching up souls before they could move on.
The key seems to be to snatch a soul before the Machinery of Death notices there is a soul in the hopper.
My thoughts are as followed. Bwonsamdi was a natural, powerful nature spirit of Azeroth even before trollkind and all that. When he once upon a time died, he got his own grove in Ardenweald. Being the powerful dealer her is, he somehow broke off his grove from Ardenweald and formed his own realm. Something like that, because you can obviously see bits of Ardenweald hanging off of De Other Side, and the entrance is a floating island hanging off Ardenweald- presumably where his domain once was.