At first I thought this was just people were better then I pulled up our old clips and man is BWL (both the bosss and trash) SUPER NERFED compared to what it was in vanilla… I wish they would of used the original BWL not the nerfed pre patch for the expansion BWL 
14 Likes
Firemaw one shot our tank tonight.
1.12.1 isn’t the pre-patch.
16 Likes
ok but still its all VERY nerfed compared to what it was originally
5 Likes
Anything below AQ40 is much easier at 1.12 than at their original versions. That has been known for years now.
Nothing has been nerfed.
12 Likes
Blame it on gear itemization and the fact that most players are rolling around in gear 1.5 tiers above what was worn in BWL originally. It is not the Instance that was nerfed, it is that the players are overgeared.
17 Likes
Absolutely this. Nothing to do with nerfs… oh and you can watch strats on youtube.
6 Likes
Considering most dps are pulling numbers that were considered top tier in naxx while just entering BWL due to proper itemization and min maxing, I’d say it’s much easier. Naxx will probably be cleared first night as well due to this fact. I wouldn’t be surprised to see warriors pushing 2k+ dps during execute phases in naxx
4 Likes
It isn’t super nerfed or even kinda nerfed, it is exactly what it was. Tanks can still parry-haste the boss right before or after a Shadow Flame and just explode. Broodlord can MS just about anyone’s face off. Healers can’t be asleep at the wheel.
BWL only got fixes to prevent odd kiting strategies, which is why packs can respawn mid pull if you drag things too far off. That was a fun experience with overseers. The 1.12 talents are giving a boost to the Frost Mages but they aren’t the ones decimating the meters… aside from frost-weakness drakonids. Warriors had their buff already.
This doesn’t make any sense. People wearing gear from Molten Core, that was available pre-1.6, does not translate to wearing gear “1.5 tiers above.” Nothing prevented you from using Mana-Igniting Cord and Robes of the Archmage over T1 pieces. No one is “overgeared” for the place.
This. And this is not the same as being “overgeared” but rather people playing smarter. Choosing better gear for your class is right in line with working a better or more efficient strategy for a particular boss.
9 Likes
Ok, now you just said something factually incorrect. Before 1.10 many items in current BiS lists were MUCH worse than their current versions. Some of them didn’t even exist.
Bloodmail Boots, the premier DPS warrior boots had +20 spirit and nothing else.
Hand of Justice dropped from Thaurissan.
Star of Mystaria didn’t have spell hit.
Savage Gladiator Chain had 13 less Strength and 14 less Agility.
Ban’thok Sash was a green with no spell hit or spell damage.
Arcanist Crown didn’t have spell damage, or spell hit.
Arcanist Bindings didn’t have spell damage.
THE ENTIRE NIGHTSLAYER SET WAS WORSE THAN 1.10 DUNGEON BLUES
This list has literal hundreds of items. Classic DPS WAS NOT POSSIBLE AT BWL.
20 Likes
Man, this research is fun. None of the Arcanist items people use nowadays to get the set bonus had any spell damage on them. Which doesn’t matter anyway, because the 3-piece bonus was for pvp mana regeneration. Mageblade had no spell damage. Rank 10 warrior PvP shoulders (BiS until AQ 40) didn’t have +crit. Or a good strength bonus. BRE sucked. Brigam girdle didn’t have +hit, but had a lot of spirit on it. I’m trying to keep my research to only mages, warriors and rogues since they have the highest DPS, but every class’ BiS list has items that they shouldn’t have access to at this point in the game, or at least items that were massively less powerful than their current versions.
3 Likes
Duh… if you’ve been paying attention since they announced 1.12 you’d know. They have some bugs to fix though.
This is why I never thought phases made any sense.
Why make us wait on BWL when players are going to walk into the place completely out gearing it?
BWL has the same tuning it always did, this wasn’t nerfed in any significant way. Starting on patch 1.12 didn’t make sense for trickling out content as the gear and talent improvements just make us way stronger than we should be right now.
6 Likes
I thought the same. If the wanted phasing they should of started with crap gear and talents.
1 Like
What was nerfed? Explain yourself
2 Likes
Nothing was nerfed, read the thread for clarifications.
2 Likes
Hey that isn’t even the most radical thing I have seen people post about Classic so far. Seen people post that they think 2006 WoW wasn’t vanilla. I’m like ok dude, you keep on shining on you crazy diamond. No True Scotsman and zealotry just seem to come so readily these days for people.
3 Likes
You’ve seen the problems (and time) it took for them to code one version of the game to be ready for launch. Blizzard gave their explanation a long long time ago about how difficult it would be to replicate that amount of effort for EACH patch. Meaning that they would have to go out of their way to purposely recreate bugs/performance issues that only existed for a month or two when it was retail, and then engineer a fix for said bugs down the line.
The patch 1.1 true progression model and its development schedule is not at all sustainable. The game would have been in development limbo for who knows how many more years than it already was.
3 Likes
I was watching streams last night and some guilds didnt get past Veal, some got to firemaw… of course there were some who killed nef but that is the minority.
try to remember in vanilla at least the vanilla I remember dps warriors used 2handers and were MS spec’d most of the time… tanks specd/geared all out def/avoidance. there were a lot of healers that didnt down rank. a lot of rogues were daggers over swords.
then there is the pre patch talent changes.
I believe this is inline with vanilla. My guild is running it tonight so I will get a better feel for it personally but so far classic has felt just like vanilla if you take certain factors into account
4 Likes
But Battlechaser’s Greaves did: https://itemization.info/item/12555
That… doesn’t make the item not exist.
Choker of the Firelord is better anyway
Which is why you used Cadaverous Armor instead, which never changed and is still exceptionally good. In fact, Cadaverous remains a top tier offensive piece for classes for a looooooong time, which sucks given it has no Stamina at all. It is pure offense.
Which doesn’t matter when Mana-Igniting Cord existed.
Arcanist Crown had 15 Spell Power in Patch 1.5. Folks wouldn’t have worn it anyway because the 3pc bonus wasn’t changed until later. They’d have used the 26 Spell Power (at the time) Netherwind.
Yeah they did…
Nightslayer had its final updates in Patch 1.5. Meaning the entirety of the Tier 1 Rogue set was finalized before BWL released. Only select classes got small changes to set bonuses or stats in Patch 1.9. So unless you think present-day Rogues are doing it wrong by wearing Nightslayer pieces…
Further, most Leather based gear didn’t change an iota all of Vanilla. The Scholo stuff got upgraded to be sure, but none of it went from crap to better than MC loot. The most common blues you see people still using are Bracers of the Eclipse (DM loot, never changed from 1.3 onward) and Cape of the Black Baron (Strat loot, never changed ever). Truestrike Shoulders, Mask of the Unforgiven, Devilsaur Leather items, etc, were available in Patch 1.1 and never received a change.
It absolutely was possible, without a single shred of doubt, but for maybe the upper 95th percentile. Some items were not BiS like they are now, but that doesn’t exclude every other item that is closely tied with them from existing. You even tried to include Molten Core items that existed in their present form before BWL even released.
C’mon…
The guy claimed that:
This would imply AQ40 levels of power. That is flagrantly untrue. 99% of the 1.10 itemization from dungeon blues is utterly washed out by Ony/MC loot, and any remainder is due mostly to lack of raid drops even existing.
8 Likes
I just would have started with the stuff open