Pretty much title; if a warlock uses hellfire then a paladin uses hand of sacrafice they get combat. Which doesnt make sense given they are on the same team.
It become problematic because any other class with a buff can chain combat.
Hope it gets fixed; state of arena is annoying not being able to sap any teams with a pet.
bumping… again
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Bumping this because this still very obviously plagues arena right now and is still completely taken advantage of.
A Warlock casting Hellfire while Hand of Sacrifice is active on them, should give the casting Paladin combat. This is an authentic to 3.3.5 interaction. Weird? Yes. But authentic.
authentic bug, hence the bug report forum lol
But it’s not a bug. It’s a suggested change for an awkward behavior.
i mean where in the hellfire or sac tooltip does it say you’ll get in combat?
Tooltips are not exhaustive of interactions.
When someone walks up and hits the person you have Sac’d it gives combat. Sac doesn’t need to say - “this gives combat when damage is transferred”, but that is how it works. It also doesn’t say “this doesn’t gives combat when damage is transferred”. So where on Sac does it say it does or doesn’t give combat? Tooltips don’t need to say exactly how the spell interacts with combat on it.
When any damage is successfully transferred to the paladin through Hand of Sacrifice, it gives combat.
Use Skull of Impending Doom with Sac on and it grants the Paladin combat.
Use Sulfuron Slammer with Sac on and it grants the Paladin combat.
Oh so u agree it’s a bug
How did you get that out of what I said?
No I do not agree it is a bug. I think it’s not intuitive when you’re thinking about an ally damaging themselves. But the way the spell works and is intended to work is when any damage is transferred to the paladin through Hand of Sacrifice it gives combat.
Oh you’re a dev i see
All good, it’s a mistake a lot of people make at first because I don’t use a blue name.
Hey Zirenee, thanks for the response. I was also a little thrown off by the lack of blue name.
That makes sense for hand of sac, but is there a similar explanation for why mages and hunters are also able to get themselves (as well as their teammates) into combat in arena before actually engaging, while also being able to maintain perpetual combat afterwards?
This is a regular occurrence for me when facing teams like Mage/Priest and Hunter/Priest. Typically the mage uses their pet to get combat, and hunters usually do something along the lines of send their pet in on aggressive, feign, then mend pet to just keep combat up permanently.
Afterwards they just rinse and repeat and continue to heal in order to stop combat from dropping.
Hey @Zirenee, sorry for the spacing between these replies, but just wanted to bump this again. Been spending a lot of my last couple of weeks in the arena, so a lot of this is very fresh on my mind.
Outside of the warlock getting combat from Sac, is there a reason that you know of that mages, hunters, and warlocks not playing with a paladin are able to get themselves into combat without actually engaging anything?
This is exactly the sequence that I’m usually seeing for mages- they’ll summon pet, go invis, and immediately exit invis and be in combat.
For hunters, they’ll send their pet in, feign death, then mend pet.
Warlocks without a paladin are also usually unsappable for me but I’m not entirely sure why. It’s always with a succubus, and what happens is they won’t have a combat indicator but I’ll get a message saying target is in combat, even if they succubus has not come out of invis yet. There will be no signs of them being in combat though- no indicator or anything, the only way I can tell is when I actually try and sap and can’t.
I’m sure there’s a couple that I’m missing, but this is generally what’s been messing me up the most and the most noticeable. And all of them are pretty game breaking because it’s impossible to get a favorable opener.
Thanks in advance, and happy to answer more if needed!
NP Antaris,
I’m actually very familiar with this and investigated it as well.
This is true to reference/OG Wrath behavior (which is the strangest part). And as far as I looked the explanation for why it exists in Wrath - is to prevent you from having your pet on one player and using a combat drop to begin drinking.
You can micro around this situation with pet passive/follow before casting FD/Invis, but yeah I see issues/reports with this interaction dating back to 2006, but ultimately being waved and saying that pet combat should be tied to owner’s combat as much as possible.
Press pet attack on someone far away → Feign → you now have combat on the Hunter. The pet does NOT even need to make contact with the other player, just an attack command entered.
It seems like when a pet is sent to attack and then you perform any kind of combat drop - it has the inverse effect and actually puts you into true combat which can then be bounced around players.
So the reasoning I find in the records is this is an interaction that existed, got reported, then said it was intended to prevent easy drink-play. And that reasoning is shown for about three years before all reports of this stop.
But yeah this basically makes it so you can’t sap anyone unless you’re all stealthed on a team. Existed back then, but not as common knowledge/abused.
I appreciate the response Zirenee!
As much as I don’t like it, I’m glad to finally have a concrete answer about why this exists. It’s just unfortunate that it’s abused by 100% of players at a high level =/
It is what it is though, and I feel like I finally at least have some closure on the issue after a couple of years of arena haha.