[BUG] Seal Twisting - Seal of Righteousness / Seal of Command

WoW Classic WoW Classic Bug Report
1

A widely known and integral part of paladin gameplay is the mechanic of seal twisting; this technique which existed throughout the entirety of Vanilla and The Burning Crusade, allows a paladin to take advantage of two seals on a given hit through twisting those seals as a melee swing occurs. This mechanic which rose to prevalence throughout the Burning Crusade was primarily utilised through twisting Seal of Blood with Seal of Command. In vanilla this mechanic could be performed through a multitude of seal combinations ranging from SoC/SoJ to SoC/SoL twisting as is demonstrated in this post among many others; however the most useful and effective of these was the combination of Seal of Command and Seal of Righteousness Twisting; which granted a paladin a significant damage boost, this mechanic however is currently bugged and cannot be performed in classic. Through twisting Seal of Righteousness on Seal of Command the paladin should gain a Seal of Righteousness proc on both the initial white swing and the subsequent Seal of Command swing; however currently due to this current bug Seal of Righteousness does not proc on either hit and as a result the class loses a major damage source it should otherwise have access to.

In documenting this bug I have taken the liberty of recording both in-game footage and exported combat logs of SoC/SoR twisting and its resultant zero procs occurring. Furthermore to provide context; I have recorded in-game footage and exported combat logs of SoC/SoJ twisting and SoC/SoL twisting so that the interactions can be compared against the broken mechanic. Further on in the post I will offer reference of original footage documenting paladins during the Burning Crusade being able to twist damage seals off of SoC through the use of Seal of Blood; proving its function.

Seal Twisting Analysis - SoC/SoJ Twisting, SoC/SoL Twisting & Soc/SoR Twisting

Combat Logs- SoC/SoJ Twisting

9/9 10:40:07.735 SWING_DAMAGE,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-00007596C8,“Scorpid Hunter”
9/9 10:40:08.706 SWING_DAMAGE,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-00007596C8,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”
9/9 10:40:08.945 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20375,“Seal of Command”,0x2,BUFF
9/9 10:40:08.946 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20164,“Seal of Justice”,0x2,BUFF
9/9 10:40:08.946 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x80000000,20164,“Seal of Justice”,0x2
9/9 10:40:09.236 DAMAGE_SHIELD,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-00007596C8,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,10299,“Retribution Aura”
9/9 10:40:09.695 SPELL_CAST_FAILED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x80000000,20375,“Seal of Command”,0x2,“Not yet recovered”
9/9 10:40:10.395 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20164,“Seal of Justice”,0x2,BUFF
9/9 10:40:10.395 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20375,“Seal of Command”,0x2,BUFF
9/9 10:40:10.395 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x80000000,20375,“Seal of Command”,0x2
9/9 10:40:10.425 SPELL_CAST_FAILED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x80000000,20375,“Seal of Command”,0x2,“Not yet recovered”
9/9 10:40:10.705 SWING_DAMAGE,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-00007596C8,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”
9/9 10:40:11.247 DAMAGE_SHIELD,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-00007596C8,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,10299,“Retribution Aura”
9/9 10:40:12.706 SWING_DAMAGE,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-00007596C8,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”
9/9 10:40:12.706 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-00007596C8,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,5589,“Hammer of Justice”,0x2
9/9 10:40:12.757 SPELL_CAST_FAILED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x80000000,5589,“Hammer of Justice”,0x2,“Not yet recovered”
9/9 10:40:12.858 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-00007596C8,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,5589,“Hammer of Justice”,0x2,DEBUFF
9/9 10:40:13.287 DAMAGE_SHIELD,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-00007596C8,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,10299,“Retribution Aura”
9/9 10:40:17.886 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-00007596C8,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,5589,“Hammer of Justice”,0x2,DEBUFF

Combat Logs- SoC/SoL Twisting

9/9 11:05:25.059 SWING_DAMAGE,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”,0x10a48,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”
9/9 11:05:25.059 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20134,“Redoubt”,0x1,BUFF
9/9 11:05:25.339 SWING_DAMAGE,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”
9/9 11:05:25.460 DAMAGE_SHIELD,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”,0x10a48,0x0,10299,“Retribution Aura”
9/9 11:05:27.049 SWING_MISSED,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”,0x10a48,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,PARRY,nil
9/9 11:05:27.739 SWING_DAMAGE,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”
9/9 11:05:29.059 SWING_DAMAGE,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”,0x10a48,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”
9/9 11:05:29.519 DAMAGE_SHIELD,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”,0x10a48,0x0,10299,“Retribution Aura”
9/9 11:05:31.068 SWING_DAMAGE,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”,0x10a48,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”
9/9 11:05:31.068 SWING_DAMAGE,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”
9/9 11:05:31.549 DAMAGE_SHIELD,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”,0x10a48,0x0,10299,“Retribution Aura”,0x2
9/9 11:05:31.929 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”,0x10a48,0x0,20424,“Seal of Command”,0x2
9/9 11:05:32.349 SPELL_DAMAGE,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”,0x10a48,0x0,20424,“Seal of Command”,0x2
9/9 11:05:32.599 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20375,“Seal of Command”,0x2,BUFF
9/9 11:05:32.599 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20347,“Seal of Light”,0x2,BUFF
9/9 11:05:32.599 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x80000000,20347,“Seal of Light”,0x2
9/9 11:05:32.742 SPELL_HEAL,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20333,“Seal of Light”,0x2
9/9 11:05:33.072 SWING_DAMAGE,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”,0x10a48,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”
9/9 11:05:33.172 SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20134,“Redoubt”,0x1,BUFF
9/9 11:05:33.563 DAMAGE_SHIELD,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”,0x10a48,0x0,10299,“Retribution Aura”,0x2
9/9 11:05:34.552 SWING_DAMAGE,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5419-000075A457,“Glasshide Basilisk”

Combat Logs- SoC/SoR Twisting

9/9 11:20:51.324 SWING_DAMAGE,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-000075A6B4,“Scorpid Hunter”
9/9 11:20:51.844 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-000075A6B4,“Scorpid Hunter”
9/9 11:20:52.065 SWING_DAMAGE,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-000075A6B4,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”
9/9 11:20:52.255 SPELL_DAMAGE,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-000075A6B4,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,20424,“Seal of Command”,0x2
9/9 11:20:52.355 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20375,“Seal of Command”,0x2,BUFF
9/9 11:20:52.355 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20291,“Seal of Righteousness”,0x2,BUFF
9/9 11:20:52.355 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x80000000,20291,“Seal of Righteousness”,0x2
9/9 11:20:52.667 DAMAGE_SHIELD,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-000075A6B4,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,10299,“Retribution Aura”,0x2
9/9 11:20:53.064 SPELL_CAST_FAILED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x80000000,20375,“Seal of Command”,0x2,“Not yet recovered”
9/9 11:20:53.866 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20291,“Seal of Righteousness”,0x2,BUFF
9/9 11:20:53.866 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20375,“Seal of Command”,0x2,BUFF
9/9 11:20:53.868 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x80000000,20375,“Seal of Command”,0x2
9/9 11:20:53.947 SPELL_CAST_FAILED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x80000000,20375,“Seal of Command”,0x2,“Not yet recovered”
9/9 11:20:54.046 SWING_DAMAGE,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-000075A6B4,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”
9/9 11:20:54.277 SPELL_PERIODIC_ENERGIZE,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,19852,“Blessing of Wisdom”,0x2
9/9 11:20:54.667 DAMAGE_SHIELD,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-000075A6B4,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,10299,“Retribution Aura”,0x2
9/9 11:20:54.667 SWING_DAMAGE,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-000075A6B4,“Scorpid Hunter”
9/9 11:20:55.415 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-000075A6B4,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,20424,“Seal of Command”,0x2
9/9 11:20:55.877 SPELL_DAMAGE,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Creature-0-4671-1-93-5422-000075A6B4,“Scorpid Hunter”,0x10a48,0x0,20424,“Seal of Command”,0x2
9/9 11:20:55.966 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20375,“Seal of Command”,0x2,BUFF
9/9 11:20:55.966 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,20291,“Seal of Righteousness”,0x2,BUFF
9/9 11:20:55.966 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,Player-4669-00076537,“Archeon-Arugal”,0x511,0x0,0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x80000000,20291,“Seal of Righteousness”,0x2

This video demonstrates the aforementioned Seal Twisting tutorial recorded during the Burning Crusade, demonstrating the mechanic of Seal Twisting being implemented through Seal of Command and Seal of Blood providing further evidence that Seal Twisting a damage seal on top of Seal of command should apply the damage to both the initial white swing and the following seal of command hit, resulting in a combination of the following attack in one swing.

White Swing => SoR =>SoC => SoR

1:52 Time Stamp - Demonstration of the seal affecting both swings
https://i.imgur.com/ApXH6AZ.png

2:12 Time Stamp - Demonstration of the seal affecting both swings
https://i.imgur.com/nDGofUU.png

Time Stamp of First Seal Twist.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post I look forward to your response; and hopefully seeing this broken mechanic being fixed shortly, and paladins soon having access to one of their most important damage dealing combinations (SoC SoR Seal Twisting) once again in the near future.

Best regards,

Archeon.

EDIT: Edited for formatting and data filtering.

1 Like
2

I’m glad they fixed this bug in Classic.

3

the bug through which seal twisting is currently broken; is yet to be fixed… hopefully the mechanic seen in seal of righteousness/seal of command twisting; which existed throughout the entirety of both Vanilla and the Burning Crusade, will be back in game shortly as it should be in order to ensure that classic is authentic to the original game as possible… seal twisting not working as it should is a major change to vanilla.

Edit:
The following posts by the user Shuguen are an attempt to troll and derail the bug report, if you skip through it you will see him contradicting himself and admitting that Damage Seal twisting should work in an accurate recreation of vanilla; and then making it abundently clear that his entire purpose in this thread is biased and an attempt to mislead and bait… this quote says it all; in essence he doesnt play paladin so doesnt want the bug fixed.

4

It’s not a bug, you will not be able to do it with the modern client.

5

what is not a bug? seal twisting was and is a legitimate and authentic mechanic, which was used by paladins in the original game; and is currently used by many players in classic wow right now. It works in the modern client; in fact in this post i provided reference evidence of me twisting two example combinations to compare against. The only thing that doesnt work and is a bug; is the combination of twisting SoR and SoC not working which will hopefully be fixed in the near future.

1 Like
6

SoC and SoR can not be twisted and is not a bug. This is due to the modern client and how it interprets the damage swings. It only works with other seals due to the fact they are not damage based seals.

No one is saying it wasn’t a thing, it just isn’t now and has to do with the client.

There are similar mechanics this also applies to in retail.

7

I haven’t seen any evidence on the forums or in patch notes whatsoever to support this speculation; would you be able to point me in the direction of it, or is this completely anecdotal based? If that is the case, then it is definitely an error in scripting and needs to be fixed, and would by definition make the incorrect scripting, a bug.

If something functioned a certain way in vanilla and does not function that way in classic due to left over scripting as a result of back-porting legion to classic that by definition is a bug… retail scripting has no relevance to classic whatsoever.

SoR/SoC twisting not function is indisputably a bug… you effectively said it yourself; and then contradicted yourself… this leads me to think this might simply be a bait or troll post…

if a class or spell functioned a certain way in vanilla it needs to function the way it did in the original game and should never be affected by weakened or detracted from as a result of incorrect scripting which is purely resultant from the back-port of the game from the Legion version.

8

It is not a bug because of how it is currently designed. It is only a bug by technicality because of the use of two different client models. Therefore, since we are using the new client it is not a bug and will not be fixed due to its very low priority on a class the vast majority will not even care about.

Is it authentic? Well no. Also I never contradicted myself you just always like to prefer to listen to yourself and decide without actually listen to what another is saying. We told you numerous times the /sit would not work and that other things like the spelladin build would not work.

If something functioned a certain way in vanilla and does not function that way in classic due to left over scripting as a result of back-porting legion to classic that by definition is a bug… retail scripting has no relevance to classic whatsoever

Quite frankly you are wrong. First off would only be a bug if it used the same client, there is no bug because the modern client does not allow it. A bug implies it has a correct variation of existence and it does not in this case. Secondly, there is a good reason literally no real theory crafter uses training dummies or random mobs to test mechanics. Next there is a lot more to building and importing data into a client then simply scripting. Also the fact you said that it has zero relevance is so absurdly wrong it hurts. If your client is the modern client then everything involving how the modern client works is relevant.

I haven’t seen any evidence on the forums or in patch notes whatsoever to support this speculation;

There is literally an abysmal amount of factual data on the forums and no patch notes will ever tell you such a specific and I mean a very specific detail about how a client works in conjunction with its design and its current overlaying data. You would only see something similar in the case of something being accidentally changed and a Blizzard official explaining in a very simple way how it happened.

I have no desire to sit here and explain something you would blatantly ignore like usual. Go find the discord link to any major retail class discord and ask a theory crafter how it actually works. Just like the post on Berserker Stance is it not bugged just because you cant see what you want to see. Your entire argument is the logical fallacy of well its classic so everything should be the same, when in reality with two completely different clients, the little things like this that were obviously unintended in the first place which was why they first this in the first place.

It is also pretty common sense, the only seal twisting you are not able to do is the two seals that directly add addition damage (proc and addition holy damage). If you can literally seal twist every other way except a proc into another type of damage enhancement it clearly shows the outlier. Yes, I am well aware SoB and SoV are also direct enhancements however they also work differently mechanically which allowed their use.

Just so you know, literally no one actually seal twisted in vanilla because it was down right wasteful. No one who actually put time into the class seal twisted until TBC when SoB and SoV were released.

Lastly, Classic was forked to the 8.0 client only the demo was 7.3.5.

9

Wow… this is such an obvious attempt to derail my bug report and troll; you have have earned a well deserved report, hopefully an admin can tidy this up, and delete the troll posts.

Im not sure who you think I am, but I have never advocated for spelladins; and I have also never asserted reckoning should function the way it did on private servers… This is a bug report about Seal Twisting; stop attempting to derail it.

Summarised you made claims based on no evidence, made extremely misinformed declarations while contradicting yourself; made it blatantly obvious to anyone who reads this that your agenda isnt to fix or report bugs but rather to impede the process of it…

And finally to top it off, went onto the bug report forums… to argue that an actual verified, proven, and documented bug shouldnt be fixed or even declared a bug because, the faulty scripting of the current client hasnt been fixed yet to match the way the original game functioned; and that it wont affect players who dont play paladin, so it shouldnt be fixed at all.

This is WoW Classic, not retail; or some ridiculous version of the game where you get to personally select what is and isn’t a part of the game. If any function or interaction of the game does not reflect how classic originally played then it should be reported… Especially if it is bug which has occurred as a result of flaws in scripting as a a result of the back-port from the Retail version to WoW Classic.

In spite attempts to derail this bug report, SoR / SoC Twisting is currently bugged, damage seal twisting was undeniably a verified, proven, and documented technique which functioned throughout the entirety of classic; and this mechanic needs to be fixed.

Cheers.

1 Like
10

know this is super late but i just wanted to pop in and say, the jokes on the guy who tried to derail the report because now with prepatch/tbc coming blizzard are acknowledging the twisting and making sure it makes it in :slight_smile:

11

I mean this is from blizzards not a bug list:

Paladin:

  • Paladin Seals will not proc from Crusader Strike damage as well as several other paladin procs and abilities (including Vindication).
  • Not all Paladin Seals can be “twisted” into each other.
  • Reckoning will not proc from damage-over-time effects.