its 6% armor pen to a stance they don’t use, the t9 set is just additional crit on some fury abilities
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It’s not really “yet to be seen,” you saw the effect as warriors got nothing but higher ilvl gear in Ulduar and jumped from noticeably below rets in Naxx (even before the ret buffs) to significantly higher than rets.
The next tier is a smaller ilvl jump than Naxx to BiS Ulduar is now, but you are still going to see warriors move up some spots on the meter. This isn’t just wishful thinking. That’s going to happen again in ICC, with another bump if you get Shadowmourne.
Arms is more likely to be fairly undervalued because of how much better dual wielding is, and Blizz is far less likely to buff this one due to it being a traditionally “pvp” spec for the class.
Unless there’s an avenue to buff it that doesn’t make it stronger in PvP, I really can’t see Blizz stepping in to help Arms.
It’s not really a specific set bonus they need, it’s just that they get more out of DPS stats than most other specs due to how their class works.
Warrior scaling is way more gradual, and less linked to “you got X item/set, you now jump several tiers in DPS”
“Significantly higher” is just a lie. Algalon kills have rets in the 95th percentile as above fury warriors.
Not to mention they (paladins) have S tier tank and S tier healing.
Paladins are just a joke at this point in the discussion about balance.
Yes, on that fight we currently have a slight lead. Across the raid, rets do not, and rets needed a significant buff to catch up to the gear scaling that fury had across this one tier jump.
The entire purpose of that buff WAS to bring us closer to fury. You don’t have to like it, but that’s a pretty solid statement from the devs that they are pretty happy with where Fury is right now.
Yes, because that matters so much for rets. I’m sure you’d be perfectly happy with where Fury is right now if blizz just brought prot warriors to S tier.
You were already close enough with utility. The whinging of ret paladins superceded any logic taken to the buff.
Oh, you don’t use dual spec with your ret? Must be tough getting yourself to 1000g these days to afford it.
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We really weren’t based on the data of how many rets were actually being brought to hard mode content before the buffs.
Fury’s has like a 50% lead over rets, arms was nearly matching us…
Our utility wasn’t even creating the “you make sure you bring 1” level that fury at least benefits from. If you needed a paladin, you brought a prot or holy pal. You rarely considered a ret unless you were desperate.
Even now people bring more warriors to raids for DPS than rets.
Oh, I’ve got it. My 2 specs are ret and DSac Ret for like the 1 fight it’s used on.
So by your logic prot paladins should be nerfed based on the classes “actually being brought”. Glad you agree with that perspective on your logic.
Fury didn’t have the utility ret has, and you should have had to wait for ICC like fury warriors are being told to do.
You’re being ridiculous. I wrote off paladin opinions on these forums long ago because they’re the weakest arguments to balancing I’ve ever seen. They whinged and whinged about dps numbers in isolation and got what they wanted because their class is already overrepresented. You’ll dual-spec into an S tier PvE spec and go on your merry way now that you’ve cried to Blizz.
Let the actual discussion about balance go on without your interference please.
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Utility is not something the game should be balanced around. It’s just a weak argument. Every class has some utility and to try to balance around who has more or less is asinine, and impossible.
100% it is. You bring classes based on their utility. Dps is a subset of utility, you think people were bringing shadowpriests in TBC due to their raw dps?
Get real. Paladins on this forum are a joke.
Not as much as a joke as every single warrior buff thread I see. Warrior dps is just fine.
If they fall 10% behind the bottom pack in dps I will agree on a buff.
Prot warriors have a better case for buffs anyway.
Well how about you actually argue the case. I made my case, utility isn’t irrelevant when discussing balance. You seem to think it is.
Utility: “The quality or condition of being useful; usefulness.”
I’d argue dps is a factor in that, so utility can’t be deemed irrelevant.
So ret paladins’ utility beyond dps must factor in to the way in which classes are balanced. But ret paladins whined and whined about dps in isolation so Blizz gave them what they want.
Based on warriors’ non-dps utility they should be top 5 dps in every encounter.
Edit: Let me be clear: I don’t care what a paladin thinks about buffs. You as a class have already demonstrated the animosity to which you view original WoTLK classic. Your perspective means absolutely nothing to me.
No, because you don’t balance around how much utility one class has and one doesn’t.
Yes you do. Re-read the definition I posted. Dps is a subest of usefulness as much as anything else.
No, Its entirely irrelevant how much of a class is being brought.
The representation that matters is how much of the available roles to a class are brought.
Warrior has no representation problem in its DPS role. It doesn’t have a performance problem either (and if you disagree there, that’s fine, but it will be better next tier).
Ret had both a performance problem and a representation problem as paladin’s only DPS option. The next tier wasn’t going to fix that, as the class is going to rely pretty heavily on ICC procs (T10 and Tiny Abom are obscene) to reach higher tier performance, not a gradual scaling like warriors have that allow them to move up the ranks naturally.
You wouldn’t be happy with Fury as it is if blizz buffed prot to be guaranteed a MT slot. If anything you’d probably be complaining that now your utility is already covered.
That’s exactly why the “paladin is good at tank/healing!” Is a bad argument against the class’ DPS role, which doesn’t do either of those things.
I’m not even going to read your post. Paladins’ opinions on this topic are irrelevant and biased.
You got your buff, now go on your merry way and let the rest of us discuss balance.
Yeeto mosquito.
Warriors are doing ok in damage, they are near the bottom and will climb slight faster than ret does on the meters.
If any class falls 10% behind the pack like ret did I support a buff.
same
As are yours, and probably far more so.
Welp I think I need to report this much like the rest of the ret paladins do to my posts. Enjoy your silence.
Yeeto mosquito.
Warriors are doing ok in damage, they are near the bottom and will climb slight faster than ret does on the meters.
If any class falls 10% behind the pack like ret did I support a buff.
Jeez “Kid”? Diminutizing me now, verrry disrespectful. I think I’ll add that on to the report feature.