Like the title says my main tanks in my raids are a pally and warrior and the warrior is swapping class because warrior tanking is terrible and cant hold aggro and tbh same with pally, as pally tanking is good for AOE though neither class are crit iummune or damage reductions. warlocks got meta form sht ton armor, crit immune and tankier than pally and warriors, then rogues with alot of tanking talents tbh are crit immune have buffed HPs and are tankier and have more dodge and parry than pally/warrior will ever have, then last druid with a flat damage reduction like warlocks and rogues, crit immune and a low cost rage dump to hold aggro its cringe that the 2 actual tanking classes are now worthless
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hyperbole aside, warriors are in a tough spot where their DPS vastly outpaces other classes in raids, but feels anemic in other content, and shamans and paladins have so much more snap threat and AOE that playing warriors can feel generally sluggish.
I know they’ve stepped back from rage normalization but i’d like to see what direction they’re taking us, and I hope that includes more fun buttons to press. It’d be cool to tank like a general nazgrim style warrior, dropping war banners and throwing ravagers for AOE, rage gen, and snap threat.
Whatever direction they take it, I hope we see replacements or reworks for consumed by rage and flaggelation; as percent increase to damage runes are kinda just boring, and they double down on warriors scaling in a way that is problematic for the designers to control.
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For AOE threat I was thinking something like a frontal cleave ability that is high threat and applies rend?
I think that would sync pretty well with our blood frenzy rune.
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thats sort of blood and thunder from cata. Uncapped thunderclap, and a single instance of rend spreads to all targets hit by thunderclap.
Give Warriors “Honed Weapon”, granting them (and only them) a 20% chance to gain an extra attack with 20% additional power, that doesn’t stack with other similar effects.
Boom. Suddenly they’re much better in PvP with no gain in Raiding.
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passive windfury?
Could work. Id like to see more fun buttons though. War banners, ravagers, ignore pain, that sort of thing.
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I’ve said before I want a Kyrian Spear type ability but slightly lower fantasy. Just a plain old iron spear that wraps a chain around targets struck. If they break the chain they get stunned like Binding Shot.
Would similarly help Warrior in PvP without doing much for them in PvE.
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Perhaps wrap that into a polearm & board spec for prot? People have wanted to do that for a long time and its just a niche that doesnt exist in any version of wow.
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I’ve made several comments on both classes as tanks (I play both and have for a long time, my warrior is also Arms OS with Ret as my paladin OS - specs I’ve also played for a long time). I don’t really think warrior or paladin exactly need to be crit immune, but gear needs defense on it. They removed the defense on all the gear from ST. Which I understand defense isn’t a wholly desirable stat in vanilla content, but Blizzard should course correct and make tanks viable with defensive gear too.
Warriors need Focused Rage buffed to 5. Essentially, making Revenge free.
Revenge needs to scale.
Blood Frenzy needs to be buffed to 5.
Blood and Thunder needs to be a rune that spreads Rend to all targets hit and gives Thunderclap some scaling.
Paladins need:
Martyr or Sheathe to become a baseline book. They are damn near mandatory at this point.
Aegis needs a buff of some kind. It’s literally just Redoubt and Shield Specialization. It’s 8 talent points that you really can’t put anywhere else if you are prot anyway.
Reckoning should get the Aegis treatment. Let it proc off any direct melee attack or when you dodge/block/parry. Just something to make it useful. They’ve buffed talents like Trueshot Aura, so they’ve clearly found a way to buff abilities and not have it carry over to Era (minus the Righteousness change that was eventually fixed).
The weird thing about tanking in Classic/BC is that the more damage you deal is directly tied to your threat, but it’s antithetical to the gear given. By the time Cata was out, they gave tanks a lot of extra buttons or damage in the talent trees to help with this. I find if kind of sad that the warrior guide on Wowhead says not to go sword and board rune + protection spec because the threat is “overkill” which is the whole point behind tanking. The argument becomes “the fast the boss dies the better so dealing more damage is better” which is true in most cases, but it really shouldn’t matter to the majority of the players if the tank is doing damage as long as threat is maintained.
People at this point feel entitled to not have to focus target, so warrior tanking is like playing a piano where multiple dps players are being annoying and randomly grabbing at your hands and “hybrid” player tanking is as easy as grabbing a drum with both hands and smashing your face into it.
Warriors are a hybrid class. The only class that isn’t a hybrid in SoD is the hunter class, which could easily be made a tank with a few tweaks even.
Warrior tanking requires a lot more to keep aggro for sure though. Swapping targets to Devastate and Rend (if you’re running Blood Frenzy) and Cleave is a very underutilized tanking spell. Hits 2 targets for a decent amount which is still threat on your targets.
Gearing a prot pally in TBC Phase 1 was some of the most fun I ever had in wow; You need spellpower for threat, you need capped avoidance to not die, and after that, you need to stack as much stam as you can. You cant really get all 3 of those, so you have to pick and choose and it made building your kit into an interesting puzzle.
I think WOTLK and later gearing is infinitely less interesting because of guarded by the light. Choosing between threat and mitigation is part of what gives classic gearing its charm.
So on the list we have heavy buffs to revenge and blood frenzy, perhaps the inclusion of blood and thunder/uncapped thunder clap, ignore pain, war banners, and ravagers. You could throw an uncapped cleave in there for good measure, or perhaps pull a legion and make revenge an uncapped cleave ability.
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whoa there cowboy. surely the itemization will make it easy peasy
also reckoning and redoubt will stay dead talents if this is a thing lol
the semantics clowns that keep preaching this fail to realize what generally when people say hybrid they mean jack of all trades, so the classes that can do all three roles of tank, dps, and healing. Not the literal meaning of 2 things together is a hybrid so everyones a hybrid LOLOLOLOL! stop
shaman
paladin
druid
hybrids
pssst, Shockwave.
Blizzard disagrees.
wowpedia.fandom. com/wiki/Hybrid_class
“Blizzard consider hybrids to be any class that has two or more functions that they can spec for. If the definition is widened in this manner then shamans, warriors, death knights, and priests are added to the list of hybrids.”
You dont know what you are asking for.
You want the ONLY CLASS (warrior) to get crit immune when they reach that with the myriad of defense pieces that exist at 60.
They will just replace it with your dps gear… with tank prio.
Smart idea now?
Look, all we’re saying is that words have meanings.
Your argument that “what generally when people say hybrid they mean jack of all trades” is conjecture.
Warriors are hybrids therefore should be subject to the hybrid tax. QED.
No one is going to be wearing enough +def gear to be crit immune. People will just use other class tanks if it is found that warriors have to do that to not die while tanking.
No we kinda do know what we’re asking.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I think that Wrath was kind of the start of the idea that tanks just need to be able to take a hit instead of avoiding hits. I get there is some need for balancing how and when tanks take damage, but removing the need for 102.4% avoidance to avoid crushing blows (since they were removed) was a big detriment to how to gear as a tank. Prior to WOTLK it was a balance between needing enough gear to hold threat and enough gear to avoid being hit for 70% of your health in a hit. They just made it so that stamina is king. Which was the majority of all things you socketed in Wrath and Cata. Then they started to make sockets almost nonexistent so it was basically the gear was the gear. They took away all player choice essentially.
I would say to keep it from going too far off the rails, you wouldn’t want uncapped spells typically. It’s okay to have to work for some threat and have to pay attention. It’s a lot less fun when you either don’t have to pay attention at all and just press the shiny buttons or having to laser focus and watch threat on several mobs. I don’t think Ignore Pain is necessary (warriors already have the lion’s share of tanking cds), but I think do think Revenge, Blood Frenzy, and Thunderclap are the three abilities that with even minor tweaks would make warrior more balanced.
As for paladin, we have zero tanking CDs unless you count bubble+taunt and LoH. Both of which are good for the split second they are used, but are literally just for that instant. Reckoning and Redoubt changed to “chance on being hit” would be a great start.
Get rid of Aegis, unless Martyr is made baseline, then just change it to a tanking cd:
Aegis
10 minute cooldown
[Passive] Your chance to block is increased by 5%. [Active] Your block value is increased by 60% for 10 seconds. Each successful block during this time increases the block value by 10%.
Would work in tandem with Holy Shield, Redoubt, Sanctity rune, and keep the shield motif going. I think Avenging Shield could use a chance to reset, it doesn’t need to be a high chance, but just something to make it better in single target. Exorcist is ridiculously good when it comes to single target threat, but AoW feels awkward over Guarded by the Light for tanking imo.
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