The damage for Templar is just way better for no reason other than tuning. I vastly prefer the aesthetic of Herald of the Sun. (Templar is cool too of course). Pwease Bwizzard 
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The goal for hero talents damage should be at 20% of the damage profile.
If templar is doing more then the whole spec needs a rebalancing (ret that is)
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Only reason Ret is not in the dumpster right now is on the back Divine Hammer interaction with Templar.
If you donât take it, itâs 10% less damage in ST (for me at least).
How do you even balance around that?
Youâd need Herald to have a similar broken interaction.
3 Likes
As a first thought, here are some changes I think they could make to balance out the damage profile between the two:
- Nerf Empyrean Hammer damage
- Buff Final Verdict (Justicarâs Vengeance) & Divine Storm significantly
- Increase Dawnlight DoT damage
Herald of the Sun already has a talent that buffs holy power spenders on targets that have Dawnlight applied to them, so by innately buffing the damage of our spenders baseline, this will allow Herald to scale those spenders better to compensate for Templarâs additional Hammer of Light button. Herald also has Anâsheâs Blessing procs to supplement our ST damage with powerful Hammer of Wraths, which would help fill in the void left by Hammer of Light as well.
Ideally, I would like to see Templar be the more methodical holy power generating/spending spec whose individual hits are more impactful while Herald is the spammier spec that gives us increased haste and Divine Purpose procs to let us spam our spenders back-to-back. Right now, it is so easy for us to spam our spenders back-to-back because of our tier set that Heraldâs niche is being taken by Templar (on top of Divine Hammer proccâing Empyrean Hammer to all hell).
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You cannot unless everything else is balance and a quality check is done.
With all these bugs and blizzâs idea thinking this tier set bonus is acceptable i think i am done with pallies for awhile. I think i will bring this guy back to alliance and make him my main until paladins is fixed and they get their head out the gutter on what ret ought to be.
Tis a shame too, i finally found a build for ret that suited me well.
The thing about that I donât like is that Templar was perfectly fine and self-contained before that interaction.
And since itâs the interaction itself that makes it go over the top, any nerfs to HoL or EH just make the Hero spec worst and force you into always playing Divine Hammer to unlock the damage itâs suppose to do.
Lets say they nerf it back to being 20% ish of Ret damage, a major part of that damage would be coming from DH.
IMO itâs bad for the health of the spec in the long term.
If people want that kind of interaction, fine, but put it in the Ret tree, put it on Divine Arbiter.
Same logic applies with the stacks, make DH scale with haste again as any DoT like ability should and as it did before.
This way, the interaction benefits both and Templar damage contribution goes back down to more normal levels.
Thatâs a very good point. I agree that Divine Hammer is the root of the problem and perhaps Empyrean Hammer is just the front-facing result.
In practice, I do enjoy Divine Hammer as a playstyle, though I would like to see more up-front damage from Divine Hammer itself and less from Empyrean Hammer. Maybe the fix is to decouple Divine Hammer from proccing Empyrean Hammer and give Divine Hammer itself a significant boost in damage? This would also make the talent Sanctify more appealing to take as it would directly buff Divine Hammer by 20% after the target was affected by Divine Storm.
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Sir this is a Chiliâs. Weâre asking for Herald of the Sun buffs here, and you guys are talking about fixing Templar 
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It needs to come in pair, unfortunately.
cant really tune herald to be strong, cause frankly templar is designed in a way where it has a engine and reward with said engine. more eh you make the more hol you throw, so anythign that nets you more eh is really good for templar. dh gives you a eh per tick of it.
herald neecd
again we do we always resort to nerfing good things about one spec to balance out the other. do keep in mind there was a fair amount of positive bugs that got fixed on herald while some negative bugs still remaining (sorry lmao)
ultimately the only way to make herald good is to build it back up from the getgo, give it some sort of reward when playing its mechanics right so its not just âret +â
it doesnt help that herald is already âspam spendersâ in keys. with how your rotation legit is just ds spam with herald, max target ep, and tier set proc.
ultimately as much as people like the simplicity of herald, it needs to have some sort of unique interaction so it can have strong synergies of its own
1 Like
Perhaps they can fix this by changing empyreal hammers to proc on hp spent. This way it can only proc on casting DH and not on itâs damage ticks.
If you are talking pve theres nothing you can do but thank blizzard and the ret âmainsâ here for adding a spell so broken an entire hero spec is being balanced around (breath of syndragosa) oh wait , its divine hammer (same thing)
Yea.
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Whatâs the point of having two hero trees when the gap between them is so wide that youâre basically forced to pick Templar. I much prefer the playstyle of Herald of the Sun, why spend time developing the other tree if youâre not going to balance or adjust it?
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You know whatâs the crazy part too? In the patch notes, Dark Ranger got buffs to narrow the gap between it and Sentinel for Hunters. Where is that for other wide gap hero specs? I love the aesthetic of Herald of the Sun. Love the magic focus of it.
They are both magic focused. templar even changes your weapon to one that poofs out of no where that is obviously constructed via light magic.
Yo dawg, why do you now have a DK picture? You leaving our Order of the Silver Hand?
These would kill templar in pvp too.
The only solution is deleting divine hammer. Thats it. Is not used in pvp and its too broken in pve
Rant incoming
I cannot understand people enjoying the same degenerate spell with a different name. Breath of syndragosa has been a plague for dw frost dk for YEARS and now made its way to ret. I just dont undrrstand the fixation with it. Makes me not wanna touch ret and worst case scenario its linked to templar.
I just want you to know that templar (and ret as a whole) will get nerfed because of divine hammer.
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Yes and no, I will still play pally occasionally, but until itâs fixed I donât think Iâll main them.
Iâll never stop playing pally since a pally is my first toon made.
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Herald of the Sun feels much more mystical than Templarâs weapons of hard-light.
I dunno dude, the only big visual we see with herald is the lazors really.
Templar has that golden hammer that appears from thin air and the falling hammers that spawns out of no where thing (although those hammers looks like our original judgement and that is what judgement should had been updated to, not chucking a hammer really)