Other classes are just slamming out so much damage and our skills do 1/4th theirs. Revert all the nerfs and fix us so we aren’t just a magic buff in raid.
Honestly, just remove Decree from Havoc and give us back sinful brand, obv the playstyle was a meme, but I’d rather be a meme build and actually do ST damage than do no damage at all
I hated it, but seriously this trash. Give us brand and extension instead of momentum, and ffs make glaive tempest surround us instead of a ground effect.
The last time i recall using Decree in this Expac was for mythic Broodmother, dont get me wrong, its a trash talent, but it worked for the adds in that fight, it pumped damage, but either way, bringing Sinful Brand back, would just set us back even further than where we are now, We would literally go back to just Chaos Strike/Eye Beam spam, cutting out Blade Dance all together, and that is just something we cannot sacrifice this time around. Even if they rework talents to include SB, So many other talents will go unused and we would be back right where we started.
There are solutions out there, Blizzard… Im sorry our Dev, is no where to be found, he left the FH Discord, and is radio silent, he refuses to acknowledge anything that we have provided in terms of solutions for the class, from talent reworks, to just straight single target buffs, meanwhile we have a crappy tier set. Now, while our cries we somewhat heard and got 18% total in Single Target buffs, we were also given talent changes to talents, that no one asked for.
We all have heard the complaints with Momentum and unfortunately I will acknowledge Gardunkle because he never stops talking about it, Essence Break. (Even though there truly is nothing wrong with it) Fodder is ultimately a problem that has got to go. But putting Sinful Brand in its spot, is a do not pass go. For the better of the class, and the game. That playstyle needs to stay away.
Now, in regards to Essene Break, yes Gardunkle I am calling you out on this one, don’t hate me. If the focus of Essence Break is to mainly amp up Blade Dance (Death Sweep respectively) then Blizzard, why don’t you create a playstyle, the specifically targets Blade Dance more. Yes, We have DwF, First Blood and Trail of Ruin. But that’s all we have for Blade Dance. I don’t count Mortal Dance because we don’t use it unless your pvping. However, why not replace talents that could be baked back into our abilities that were baseline before, and replace them with Blade Dance talents, better yet, the original Tier Set, from S3 Shadowlands, why not utilize that 4pc, and make it a talent, up the proc rate on it, throw it place of Accelerated Blades or even better, replace Fel Barrage with it. A better talent would be that Blade Dance also affects Momentum, so every use of Blade Dance, also applies Momentum. Pair that with the 4pc S3 set, you no longer have to worry about Momentum EVER being a maintenance buff. Even if it is a lousy 8%, at least youll have better uptime versus Fel Rushing to Narnia.
Cut Isolated Prey, and instead, put in Revolving Blades from BfA:
**Revolving Blades - Blade Dance deals additional damage, and the cost of your next Blade Dance is reduced by 5 Fury for each enemy struck by the final slash.**
This takes care of the Isolated Prey/Fodder situation. Even though Fodder is still trash.
Now dont get me wrong Im not leaving Eye Beam out here, Take Looks can Kill, Baseline it, replace that talent with Eyes of Rage from BfA:
Eyes of Rage - Eye Beam deals an additional [X] damage. Consuming a Soul Fragment reduces the cooldown of Eye Beam by 1 sec.
Since were picking up Demonic Appetite anyway, this is icing on the cake. Unfortunately, this should all that needs to be done to Eye Beam. Looks Can Kill should NEVER have been a talent, it should have been left alone as it always has since Legion.
Mortal Dance needs to go back to the PVP Talents. Instead, put in Fury Wrappings from SL, 15% Dodge. Fair trade in my honest opinion, and it benefits both sides of the spec, PVP and PVE.
At the end of the day, talents can be moved and such, but this would look like a very fun and unique, Blade Dance build. Or whatever.
Whoever redesigned Ret should take over Havoc. Ret is fun and engaging and has options to switch between ST, AoE, or Hybrid. In terms of veng vs prot, I think they both can get globalles on big for pulls if mismanaging CDs, but their cheat death is so much better being 45s or so CD whereas veng is 8 mins.
I’m not suggesting turn us directly into ret/prot, but they should absolutely steal what’s working as part of a havoc and veng redesign.
Wait wait wait…
I 100% agree, both havoc and veng requires buffs and we also need a 3rd spec, don’t like being the only class with 2 specs.
But…why do you want sinful brand back??? that thing was a friggin curse, ppl constantly abused me coz i was only able to do burst dps every 4 mins since it was tied to meta. Maybe sinful brand spreading like fiery would be ok but do keep in mind, most of the DH community including myself HATED that spell.
if you want sf back you need the lengendary of shadowlands like a talent that extends duration sf use eye beam on the other way its a trash talent
dont cope yourself into thinking you want something like sinfulbrand back, that loop is horrible and it will still push you into momentum based builds. think about it. each tick is capable of critting, vr increases crit chance, momentum is a flat 8% to it and kye increases that crit damage further. but wait theres more, instead of going SD and increasing your blade dance burst or essb, you might forget that and opt into getting cycle of hatred and try to get amn to further increase that sinfulbrand damage from shadow to chaos.
the climate and playstyle of sinful brand will never be welcomed back or wanted, yall need to stop suggesting bad things because you cant push into high dh st numbers
BFA Havoc was peak havoc. Give us back 200%+ haste with eye beam from furious gaze. Give us back 40% max leech with soulrending. Tune our damage up like it used to be. Let us stack crit/vers again with haste on the side.
Everyone who asked for mastery, momentum, initiative, and other memes did nothing but weaken our spec.
Sinful Brand by itself wasn’t the issue in SL. The issue was Sinful Brand + Agony Gaze + Cycle of Hatred. You can have sinful brand be applied in a different way or have different interactions and still have it be effective. I mainly blame Cycle of Hatred.
The SL play style exists today - you’re spamming the heck out of chaos strike and annihilation to get eye beam back up hiding behind the Vengeful Retreat + essence break combo. You could throw in Sinful Brand in place of Fodder and you’re doing the same rotation.
DH has a few bad interactions (Isolated Prey + Fodder; Isolated Prey + Fel Rush for fury), but my main issue is still that Cycle of Hatred talent that punishes you for any downtime or missed chaos strikes/annihilations. It’s not as bad, but it also de-syncs VR+Essence Break in the ST build.
Looking at some posts and threads, I don’t understand why people are scared or resistant to a 3rd spec or buffs with the whole “we’re fine” thing. At least with a 3rd spec, there’s a chance we can play another spec that may do better - like stocks diversify. And buffs? stop saying we’re fine - why don’t you want to be like locks and be better than average every season/expansion in every content?
your not tho? cycle of hatred is indeed problematic but its not “spam anni to get eyebeam back” its “do your rotation passively and get eyebeam back” sinfulbrands only one up on fodder is that its not rng. fodder is still a huge burst of damage due to demon souls.
cycle of hatred is still 100% a a$$ talent but youd be surprised how much it actually did when you remove the rng chance for eyebeam cdr for direct eyebeam cdr for utilizing glaive tempest, blade dance, and cs. would i like it removed? yes. but please do not confused sinfulbrand shadowlands loop for new havoc rotation, the new rotation will be 100% better than SL ever was.
becuase a 3rd spec for a class that has heaps of issues for both specs, will only magnify those issues. people need to stop looking at evoker and its 3rd spec with 0 critical thinking and realize that devoker and prevoker trees are far more flexable and stronger than the demon hunter trees AND that augvoker will 100% eclipse devoker and prevoker from content in the eyes of a very meta oriented community. comparing evoker and demon hunters circumstances for a 3rd spec justs shows a lack of realization of the issues with those two classes.
dh isnt fine, but the solutions being proposed in this thread arnt viable ones
I honestly miss brand idk why others hated it so much besides we had crap aoe, our aoe is good now if they leave it where it is, they do need the dot refresh built into the talent tho, and if i have to give up chunky heals when its the only thing keeping us alive its going to need a higher leech against / damaged resisted from the target component too
maybe a good spot for it would be where glaive tempist is since people don’t use that much and its an option slot, who even uses the 1 min storm thing, you forgot it was there didn’t you? I almost did xD
in tg build it forces you to give up fodder and accelerated blade I just looked u.u
bro this class does no damage man, needs a 100% buff to everything, im sick and tired of doing zero damage