Anyone else feel like Brew is just taking more damage than it used to in M+ or am I just crazy
1 Like
All tanks are, the damage out put of mobs was greatly increased in 9.2
Im kinda glad you brought this up because I am in the middle of writing a post about BRM.
Which talents are you using?
Light brewing / High Tolerance?
You should try out Black Ox Brew, Special Delivery, and Blackout Combo, they are superior talents.
I personally am having no survivability issues whatsoever and am not having to kite often either as necrolord BM, but I also have Sigil of the First ones (super strong) and Blood Spattered Scale.
2 Likes
Special Delivery hasn’t been worthwhile in a long time to play. Damage is subpar and requires you to be taking more damage than you should be taking for it to be properly utilized. Due to this BOB is almost null, especially with double keg smash being a thing. BoC is also a situational talent that’s generally overshadowed by High Tolerance due to requiring the higher level of damage mitigation it brings.
Special Delivery is significantly more damage than RJW in M+ (nearly double the damage on average, dealing equivalent damage as my keg smash) but the margin is closer in raiding because of fewer targets. In either case, it’s the same damage or slightly more than RJW in raids.
Black Ox Brew is hands down one of the best talents lol. You’re coming here complaining of survivability but trashing one of the best survivability talents? What is the intent of your OP? The most common damage taken profile in M+ and raids is a brief period of high damage followed by a long period of low damage. At the start of a fortified pull, you take massive damage but DPS have burst so most mobs die quickly, once their burst runs out there are 1-2 adds still alive that deal minor damage but take longer to kill. In raids, while you have the boss you take lots of damage for a brief window, followed by periods of low damage when you don’t have aggro and there are intermission/movement.
Light brewing does not support that damage taken profile. It simply provides brews more frequently but evenly spaced out. It doesn’t provide enough brews during the brief window that you need them, and it provides more brews than you need during the long period of low damage. Black Ox Brew fits the damage taken profile perfectly. It gives you a ton of brews when you need them during the short intense damage window, then it recharges during the longer low damage window.
As for Blackout Combo, it provides much more damage mitigation than High Tolerance, primarily from Brew cooldown reduction. You get waaaaay more brews from Blackout Combo than from high tolerance. This doesn’t even factor in the stagger pause on celestial brew which is insanely powerful (3/8 seconds is nearly 50% of your shields duration, assuming it lasts a full 8 seconds. If it lasts only 4 seconds then 3/4 = 75% of the duration of celestial brew all damage absorbed is from actual damage and not from stagger). This delay also gives you time to recharge purifying brew so it’s a huge efficiency boost on celestial brew. Finally, you also get an uptime boost on breath of fire which reduces your damage taken. The primary factor for blackout combo, however, is the brew reduction from keg smash.
The three talents work together synergistically, as Bone Dust Brew and Black Ox Brew both proc Special Delivery. You can then use your brews in an offense manor when you don’t need them for mitigation. For example, you can reliably get 8 special deliveries + 4 stomps into BDB for MASSIVE burst 15-20k dps.
With this build I’m consistently averaging more than 1.5k more dps overall than with light brewing / high tolerance and I am having 0 survivability issues, unlike you.
2 Likes
What makes Special Delivery very powerful this tier is the amount of CDR available from Blackout Combo + bone dust brew + black ox brew + seasonal affix — they all work together to give you a huuuge increase in number of brews = damage.
Blackout Combo gives you a baseline 5s CDR on keg smash (6 seconds during BDB), and it affects Black Ox Brew.
With Urh being the most popular choice of relic to destroy first, you are gaining even more CDR on all of your brews, so you are just drowning in brews, popping them left and right to deal damage with Special Delivery… it’s a lot of damage.
Since Urh not only shortens the cooldown of your brews but also Keg Smash, it’s a nonlinear increase to your CDR due to the positive feedback loop. The result is a ton of brews that you don’t need but just pop for the damage because Special Delivery pumps
BoB requires you to require the need for the brews, if you’re sitting there face tanking damage, you will need it. But as a both brew & a monk, you can do everything you need to do without having to sit there and face tank every mob that isn’t a caster because you have the range and kit to avoid taking said damage. This is also where BoC has its niche to where you can get those same brews on shorter CDs, on an already shorter CD, through weaving BOK → keg smash. So while having an extra Celestial Brew + Purifying brews is nice, it doesn’t mean you should be sitting there taking uncessary damage when you can avoid it all together. You aren’t a prot pala who can selfheal to the same level as healer can while still maintaining your DPS. And yes, we all know Brew is king at handling burst damage, but even so, mitigating this damage all together by proper positioning and movement will make a talent less valuable than one that will increase your alltogether throughput of not being a clown. BOB allows for mistakes to happen and mitigates it, I will give it that.
Light Brewing allows you to have those CDs much more often than you would with BOB, especially if you do use BoC for it, because the CDs you are already shortening, with 2 keg smashes + the bonus 3sec gen off BoC, will make your brews arguably be up more often and more reliably. Do I think it has a bit less value in HIGH keys? Sure. But at that point you’re playing with your established group who has a certain pull structure to where you may simply need the on demand brew from BOB.
BoC I have always liked, I’ve generally strayed away from it due to running higher amounts of haste from WW, which generally just makes High Tolerance pretty nice to have for me. I used to run the talent religiously so I understand how it has its benefits, just like where it falls short. The final row is entirely up to playstyle or interpretation, I don’t necessarily believe either is right or wrong, and is entirely on the player and how they wish to use.
I also play kyrian, I used to do necro last season due to WW and the god awful covenant crap, so survivability is definently a bit more niche towards a Necro player. However I also find the RNG part of BDB to be unreliable, which is why I tend to avoid playing it. If anything I’d play NF over it just due to the extra mobility, mastery on Niya + having a filler when for some reason I have no buttons I can press.
Your DPS is also going to be an unreliable number due to 4p going to be unlocked for other brewmasters within the next few weeks, and with those, Kyrian will skyrocket in demand for how useful it will be. Playing Mikanikos will have the CD on weapons on average about 1m20s compared to BDBs 1m, meaning that with proper pulls and management, the damage for a brewmaster will be significantly higher as Kyrian than Necro unless you are proccing every single keg smash on your BDBs.
And you assume I am having survivability issues lol. This post was just asking if it felt like damage was skewed way more than before. I don’t have issues surviving alone, I was just taken back by the damage increase compared to last season & BFA.
Edit: I’ll also give credit where credit is due, I do see quite a few people playing necro brew, and using special delivery. But almost every single person I see is still playing High Tolerance + Light Brewing, which further reinforces it when these are 3k+ io players. The combo is simply consistently better.
I can understand special delivery over RJW for sure, but necro I’m not 100% sold on.
I don’t think your prediction that Kyrian is going to be more damage then Necrolord is going to be as true as you think.
Your prediction is founded on 2 flaws:
1)The average CD on WoO is not going to be 1min20s. Probably something more like ~1min40. I’ve played Mikanikos for most of season 2 because Hammer of Genesis, Soulglow Spectrometer, and Effusive Anima did a lot of damage for MW. However, WoO does not come off cooldown every time you have 5 eligible mobs to be hit by it. It comes off cooldown on bosses and it comes off cooldown during the end of a pull when you have 1-3 mobs remaining, resulting in a higher average CD.
2)Bone Dust Brews cooldown is shorter than 1 min because it benefits from CDR from Keg Smash / Tiger Palm. You can fit 3 BoC Keg Smashes for 18s CDR right off the bat not including ~3 Keg Smashes that you can fit in the remaining CD for a total of ~ 33 CDR with BoC AND not accounting for the necrolord legendary which will push the CD even lower.
If we try to factor in Urh, sure Kyrian ability cools down faster, but Urh benefits BDB much more than WoO. This is because Urh not only reduces the CD of your BDB but simultaneously reduces the CD on keg smash, adding a nonlinear component to the CDR of your brews, favoring any builds that rely on brew CDR (like my build). If you have BDB available as Urh starts and you pool energy, you can easily reset the CD of BDB during Urh.
This nonlinear component to brew CDR is the reason why Necrolord Black Ox Brew / Special Delivery / Blackout Combo (highest priority on blackout kick Keg Smash) will be big this season. There will be simply so many brews with this build that the combined result of special delivery + consistent 4p Keg Smashes into BDB will definitely out DPS Kyrian.
How is it not going to be 1.20, if you’re using it on bosses it definently won’t be getting the full 40s off, but you can do bigger trash pulls and use weapons to get the value out of that CDR + help with the trash pull, which in general would help with Fortified, while having decent value on Tyrannicals.
- I actually forgot about BDB getting affected by the CDR from keg smash & TP, so yeah it will on average be lower, woops.
As for Urh, I actually dislike him as a brewmaster, just due to the fact of energy per keg smash. Will it bring value to things like special Delivery, niuzao, BDB, Weapons, etc… Absolutely, but you’re going to be energy starved to continue with things.
But yeah, I just did a TOP today with Special Delivery, bit curious to see how RJW would’ve done in its place in that key since it ended up being my 3rd damage overall. Urh everytime also just let me spam out SD because fk it. But that also brings into the question of High Tolerance vs BOC, since with Urh you’re going to get more value out of High Tolerance because you wont have the same effect of the CDR with BOC, but in reverse BOC will help a lot on bosses.
So we’re going necro, and what legendary would you use for a special delivery build?
Were they using mighty pour as well? I’ve only see special delivery used with mighty pour or if you needed a slow for kiting.
1 Like
With the 4 set does it make sense to go Mighty Pour? I haven’t tried it but then again the highest key I’ve ever done is 16 or 17’s in earlier seasons. So far this season I’m just gettin back to my BrM so I’ve only done a handful of 10’s.
By the way I don’t have 4 set but just thinking about when I do.
Was wondering wtf Mighty Pour was but I realized its’ Celestial Infusion.
I have honestly 0 clue, I believe it’s Equinoxmonk I looked at that actually plays Celestial Infusion + Night Fae, which I found really neat. But along with this he always plays High Tolerance/RJW.
Everything changes with 4 set though, so just gotta hold out for a few more weeks.
I really like high tolerance. It’s a challenge for me to get back into tanking because sometimes I’ll get a healer that is awesome and understands when to throw an external on me - one that makes me feel like a god and then I may get a healer that makes me second guess my choices in WoW.
To be honest, Celestial Brew is awesome but I really miss how it was in MoP where I put down my statue and get free bubbles for everyone. I wish we had that back, even if the bubbles only affected me and getting back the old guard is also on my wish list. Anyway I’m going to see how far I get this season and take it from there.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14tE2ELDN64xaDwEGG8t82ZpDbJ1485ax5uSUCNulRLQ/edit
I found his brewmaster guide that he wrote for this patch, good luck mate
1 Like
Nah go double keg smash for more damage.
Celestial infusion is for high high keys. Double keg smash will always be better inlower ones.
Keg smash gives healing, max HP, and damage
Equinoxmonk is a higher key-do-weller than either of us. If he has more success playing night fae w/ Celestial Infusion then there’s a reason.
Besides I know he’s playing double keg rn, but it doesn’t change the fact that he has tested this stuff. Guy is an insane brew
I’m new to tanking and was using Rushing Jade Wind since it makes it easier to get threat on a large group. I tried Special Delivery because it looked really good for kiting on Necrotic week and I occasionally have issues getting threat on spread out pulls like the first DoS. I basically keg smash the 2 coming up the steps, taunt the big guy in back, spinning crane kick, keg smash again, fire then weapons of order etc. Is that correct and I just need to get faster or am I doing something wrong? I know special delivery helps but it’s usually a few seconds before I need to purify and a few after that before SD hits.