Personally I believe that shamans and paladins are unique classes and should not be copycats each other. They should be brought in line with all classes and keep a unique flavour/utility to them.
From what I can read on this forum a lot of the players have a complete different opinion. I want to mention that it’s mostly paladins that demand so and feel too weak although they do more than just fine with every spec they have.
So I’m here to return that favour. Here are a couple of things that Paladins have and Shamans don’t:
Paladins were able (Poison debuff, last boss, BFD and Fire debuff, last boss, Gnomer) to significatnly simplify bosses by completely invalidating debuffs. This is once again true in P3. Bubbling off debuffs and ignoring mechanics is huge and increases raid dps significatly.
Paladin blessings are raid-wide, their judgements are too. Shaman totems only affect their party.
Paladins can dispel magic effects, the most common type of debuff.
Paladins have a party wide defensive cooldown.
Paladin tanks have no mana issues. (Believe me Shaman tanks struggle hard with mana).
Paladins have a stun.
Paladins have an execute.
Paladins have a 12 second invulnerability bubble.
As stated first I do not think that shamans and paladins should be copycats. This is just to remind the people that claim that shamans have everything and paladins have nothing.
strange. world first ST had shaman in the group. all the top sod players say shaman is op. strange again. all the orc shamans on the forums think pallies are OP. not strange. stupid yes. strange no.
Woah woah woah, let’s stop the misinformation out of the gate.
Seal of Martyr is having it’s mana restore increased. This requires meleeing a target (note: not casting) - requires a chest rune, which means not running Aegis, or Divine Storm. It’s non-viable for PvE DPS Ret because of it’s a high APS requirement - leading most to choose SoC+Divine Storm. It’s non-viable for tanking because SoR is significantly more threat and Martyr damages yourself - this also forces you to lose Divine Storm as a threat mechanic. It’s non-viable for Holy because you have to completely stop healing in order to regen.
Martyr not only doesn’t reduce damage taken by 20% - it actively damages you per activation.
Shamanistic Rage is a 60s cd fire-and-forget 15 second buff that can be perpetually rotated with very little cost investment, and tracked entirely via weakaura to follow your section of assigned Sham Rage. Shamanistic Rage can be used without target, without combat, without melee, while moving/mounted/transporting spot to spot/etc.
If you think Martyr is equal to Shamanistic Rage - you are not good at class balance.
They could make Seal of Martyrdom restore 100% of the entire raid’s mana per swing, and it’s still a colossal loss-occurrence for the Paladin that Shamans would not even remotely consider enduring.
I have a pally and I don’t care about shamanistic rage. Let the horde do horde things. If you’re ally and want to measure your epeen, just do it against other ally. In closing, mom and dad quit fighting you’re tearing this family apart.
The only hard part about pally is that I didn’t get my grim guzzler summons when they were available and no one wants to go there. And I still haven’t gotten my HoR and everything is ruined and my life sucks now.
What are you talking about. Using weakauras of sham rage is pointless.
Balance druids and elemental shaman are wondering what took you so long to start meleeing targets.
Doesn’t really make a difference. Shamanistic rage is useful because you can use it in combat, not because you can use it while drinking or before you mount up.
gasp tank shamans can’t run sham rage because it replaces way of earth, the thing that lets them tank. resto shaman have to give up earth shield, which is insanely useful for warlock tanks since we don’t have access to conq aura like paladins do.
both classes have to give up things in order to get mana back.
But you know what? you only need enough mana to not run oom. not every pld and shm in the raid has to run your mana back tool as long as your raid’s mana economy is good enough to not run oom.
Shamans are currently going 4-wide to maintain 100% uptime in SR.
You realize Sheath of Light has the same exact mechanic - right? This is a different interaction, this is passive mana restore versus active mana restore. Quit trying to strawman.
Shamanistic Rage is excellent because you can use it at any point period and restore ridiculous mana. Martyr you can’t.
Oh NOOOOOOO, your tank can’t?! Gee, wait, it’s best available for every other possible shaman spec. Earth Shield is horrible.
What sacrifice is Shaman making beyond “i pressed SR once a minute” ? None.
“It’s high APS requirement, leading most to choose SoC+Divine Storm” - If you haven’t hard-farmed Sul’thraze, you’re running SOC+DS.
Aw, man. I wanted to make those points, but I am far to lazy to multi quote a rant like that. I will echo this sentiment as a warlock tank, as it feels like I have to bully my resto healer friend to give me earth shield on trash pulls so I can hellfire freely.
this isn’t necessary. shaman rage stacks. you can just have everyone hit it on cd and no one ever runs out of mana.,
It’s not a strawman. Paladins have to hit the boss? big whoop. all 3 specs should be hitting the boss anyways.
Wrong. Sham rage is nice because it lets classes that would oom in combat, not oom in combat. Marytr will do the same.
Earth shield;s push back protection is insanely useful. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
The other runes available to them? You know, the thing you complained about paladin having to give up? You can’t be serious thinking it’s only a problem for paladins. The worst part of elemental shaman in PVE is the lack of push back protection, but you’re required to use sham rage isntead for mana. It’s very annoying.
Shamans are going 4-wide because enhance was fotm and still quite good. But even if they didn’t provide SR, you would still want 4 shamans because totems are only party wide.
Over-stacking short term gains versus perpetual 100% uptime regen. Over-stacking short term gains is pointless when you can have 100% permanent regen.
It’s strawman in that you’re comparing different mechanics trying to imply they’re the same thing while consciously knowing they’re not - and simultaneously trying to gaslight as if Paladin doesn’t have the same concept with Sheath as Mental Dex.
Oh, so you’re fine with it losing it’s 20% damage reduction, and only being usable in combat… and then only restoring mana when you actively melee while in combat - right?
For… One class… Using one ability… in 5man content… that isn’t even necessary due to Immo Aura rune. Yeah. I know what I’m talking about, do you ? Warlocks aren’t insta-tapping RoF+LoF into hellfire anymore. It’s inefficient, because LOF requires a full channel now.
What? You’re comparing a 6-deep rune requirement to cohesively use an ability (Exorcism) to “I press Rage once a minute and never have to worry about my resource management - ever - and neither does my raid!” ?
The worst part about Ele shaman in PvE is lottery system DPS via overload. Beyond that, still slaughtering meters atm.
I’m beginning to think all of the “MUH SHAERMAN R FEIN” posters are genuinely not actively participating in the game in any capacity beyond sitting on their shaman whining furiously over any class that doesn’t instantly die against them in PvP.