The illusion of choice. No one actually did keys under +10 anyway.
There were 4,996,402 keys run below +10 in DF S2. That was 18.35% of all keys run that season. To say âno oneâ did keys under +10 is a completely absurd assertion; nearly 1 in 5 keys were ran in that range for the entire season.
Note, I picked DF S2 specifically because that was the first system with the crest system. Before then, Valor farming meant a lot of high gear, high IO players ran +2s because it was the fastest way to farm the currency. With the crest system, there was no longer an incentive to run a key much lower since you had to farm higher level keys for the appropriate crests.
IMO it should shrink even more. Make it at minimum up to +5 and anything above that is challenge mode. It would make crest drops more clear to everyone and noone will have to âpushâ, you can either do it or not.
Having 18% keys being the bottom half of keys with rewards (1-20) means that it wasnât a very important half, thus it got lopped off.
I donât really have any skin in this argument because I just run whatâs available but if 18% of players are incapable of doing keys now, thatâs kind of a big deal.
I guess those are the delves players but still 18% is not a negligible amount.
A +2 today is equivalent to a +12 pre-squish, see the article below.
I will agree that the jump from Heroic to M0 (the old +10) seems a bit steep, but the current keystone range from +2 to +10 seems fine to me, UNLESS you only ever run dungeons. If you also do Delves, thatâs a super-easy way to get to 595-600 range which should absolutely be more than adequate for âthe learning curveâ in a +2 before jumping into higher level keystones. The problem I see is that newbs actually have the chutzpah to list their own +2 key for the first time and are amazed when it is 3-chested and turns into a +5 that they think they can do just as easily (and often run into problems because theyâre over their gear-level/skill-level). The solution to that is to utilize the NPC provided in-game to lower you keystone back to +2 or +3 until you LEARN all the mechanics, gear up a bit more, and then proceed into higher keys.
If playersdonât use the methods available in-game âto learnâ then thatâs on those players, not the devs. M+ design seems fine; no changes needed (still hate Challengerâs Peril but meh, thereâs always something I dislike about M+, but still the most fun mode for me).
Not only should they bring back the old key system(2-20) as it was easier to do a âpickup alt runâ, they should bring back top crests at 16 and myth gear at 18. This would actually fit right in line with delve loot too as a natural path.
If this is a problem for raids, why donât you make the last 2 bosses in heroic raid drop myth track loot, as sometimes the first 2 myth bosses are easier than the last 2 heroic.
Or it means Blizzard completely misread the room and it was a mistake. We wonât really be able to determine that until Blizzard gives us some of the data we donât have access to, however.
But thatâs a moving of the goal post anyway. Your claim was that no one did those keys. Nearly 20% is hardly âno one.â Thatâs quite different from discussing the importance of those keys.
I think part of the problem is in DF you had to spam 8âs to get myth track vault and it wasnât really that hard. Now in TWW you have to do 10s and they made 10âs have both fort and tyrannical, so its so much more harder to fill out vault in TWW than it was in DF.
Tbh I feel like readding the lower ranges would solve the âdelves reward too high of gear for the difficultyâ argument.
Make it so a + 8 delve would give +8/+10 gear, then the higher tracks would be purely from raid and higher keys.
Boom everyone(most) is happy.
Its a glaring skill issue. The casuals could skirt by in the old system because keys were easier at the lower end and people didnt care. Now you have to be competent and people dont like actually learning their classes
A good middle ground to give the learning curve ability and keep the difficulty somewhat close would be expand it to a +15 system
Yeah this killed me. I was just getting into keys and slowly make my way up. I think I was up to 5 or 6 (Iâm pretty terrible, lol) but now I am PUSHING hard at 3s to feel good enough for 4s. I begin to think, whatâs the point and then go on mount hunting jags.
I disagree, i main Brewmaster and i get accepted almost immediately. I think the issue is gear and IO. I think your point is most prevelant in the lower and higher keys ex 2-4 and 10+
I personally would rather have addressed the rewards.
Iâve mostly raided this time but, who I raid with wants me to do mythics and was giving it a shot. For the stress and effort of healing these in Pugs at low level where Iâm currently am. (The good players in general are doing 10s this late.)
Getting next to nothing at the end doesnât feel worth it.
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So what?
Truly, who is harmed by allowing players that donât know their class being able to toil in those low keys? The players who are clearly more adept at their class and the mode would never interact with them due to being several keys higher than them at all parts of the season. Isnât it better to allow more people who want to play M+ to be able to play M+? Even those who have a lot to learn about their class.
Iâm over 2400 IO now, ilvl 622 and timed all dungeons on a 9 with half of them ++. I canât even get INVITED to a 10. I spent 30 mins last night applying over and over and nothing. The difficulty jump between key levels is too much now and we are seeing it play out in real time. I am sick of it.
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Often times things are ded before the mechanics occur in m0
Same, and when i make this point people always reply with âBuT yOu CaN iNfInItLy FaRm M+â
The issue is I DONT want to do that, as i do not find M+ fun personally, the less i âneedâ to interact with m+ the better. Also M+ is a gold sink so thats annoying too
Not better, just easier. Easier does NOT mean better. The system is flawed, with the differences between 2 keys being way worse than before, and where a +2 already can make new people struggle.
Not only that but the +3 Key upgrade if timed fast is a +6 in difficulty compared to the old system, which doesnât even make any sense.
Cause itâs always been that way, people donât yet understand that a +2 right now is actually hard in Heroic gear. Also nobody wants to do Mythic0, a dungeon that can only be done once means you gotta wait even longer before farming actually BiS or Pre-BiS items, itâs annoying and unnecessary.
1 in 5 keys is bellow 10, and I remember back in like SL or BFA when we went to farm BIS items in 2s to upgrade them from the ground up instead of farming super high keys in a longer time.
Peasant. One of my friend is 2800IO, queued literally all day, 8 hours long for keys and never got a single invite.
My biggest issue is they made M+ so hard from a baseline perspective that anyone new or who doesnât know well their kits struggles like hell. That⊠Annoying.