Honestly I can’t count how many times I’ve seen people need on items that they won’t use just to sell it for … 80 gold? Meanwhile people who can actually use the gear and need the gear get screwed. Making loot in LFR personal will prevent greedy a******* from needing on stuff they wont use and don’t need.
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No, it won’t. In personal loot, the game automatically rolls need for every player for every piece of loot. Even if you decide that players like me, who don’t actually click need on every opportunity, are too insignificant a minority to count, then the result is no change.
The only difference between PL and GL, with regards to this issue, is in PL the need rolls are automatic and invisible, and in GL the players have to select need manually and the rolls can be seen.
Why change if the result is the same, at best, and more likely worse?
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It’s not always the same at best. I’ve seen 11 people in a raid rolling on the same trinket. Your chances under personal loot are much better than that.
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Because at the very least, greedy players would see their loot chances drop too. With personal loot no one could steal a piece from you, and yes, if you don’t need the loot and are just looking to sell it for a measly 80 gold you are stealing loot. If you don’t NEED the loot you should be selecting greed or even pass entirely.
It absolutely is. There is no mathematical difference between 25 people rolling need automatically, or 25 people rolling need manually.
And in Personal Loot, every single person rolls need on every loot drop. Your 11 people in a raid of 25 means they have more than double the chance of winning that trinket than with PL.
Again, the chances are equal, assuming everyone rolls need on everything they can. If some people choose not to, then the chances are better in GL than PL.
PL - everyone automatically rolls need, the highest rolls then have a roll to determine which loot they win.
GL - there is a roll to determine which drops will be looted, then everyone manually rolls need.
The math is identical, just reversed.
With Personal Loot there is no greed or pass option. Everyone rolls need automatically. So you’re complaining about a system where people choose to roll need and wanting to replace it with a system where they MUST roll need. Are you not understanding why this doesn’t make sense?
When I was doing LFR for finery on my 638 prot pal, I passed on everything. So my 4% loot chance per item was distributed to the rest of the raid. With Personal Loot, I would have won items I would have passed on, and people would have not gotten loot they got because of GL.
And just a counterpoint to this idea, if 25 people all participate in the kill, they each have a base 4% per item claim on the loot that drops. If people choose to yield their 4% for players that need the gear more, that is a kind and community oriented decision. But the 4% chance still belongs to them, and it is greedy and entitled to expect that their share of the loot MUST be given to other people. Get your hands out of their pockets, and better luck on the roll next time.
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You cannot compare your chances to win an item with personal loot, to after generation is complete with group loot. At base, you have slightly better odds with group loot due to the fact that there can be people ineligible to win an item you need.
You aren’t entitled to any loot that isn’t yours. Get over it, you lost the roll. Nobody stole from you or anybody else. Personal loot will generate items to someone that they would be ineligible to roll need for under the group loot system however, so you can rest assured your chances go downwards were such a change to happen.
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That’s not how personal loot works. When you get personal loot you are rolling against the system in if you get a piece of gear or not. In the current system you are rolling against other players. Again I’d rather have a lower chance at getting gear, then have mine stolen from someone who doesn’t actually need the gear. With personal loot, greedy players become irrelevant because they have no one to steal from. Sure I might have a lower chance at getting an item, but better that than that item dropping and being stolen by some greedy trolling a**hole.
Nah, this is just not true.
Your chances in personal loot are always 20%.
In regular loot system, your chances change depending on how many other people in the raid can roll on the same items as you.
Stop digging.
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I assure you, it is.
What does this even mean, “rolling against the system”? The system is doing the rolls, but it’s the players you’re competing with. In a raid of 25, there will be 5 drops. The top 5 internal rolls for players get loot. If you don’t get something it’s because 5 other people did.
So you’re saying you would rather have less loot than see people get loot that you don’t think deserve it? Wow, that is spiteful. Have you tried just looking at yourself and spending less time worried about what other people are doing?
Why is the gear “yours” before you roll on it? Isn’t that what the roll is for? And why do you think it’s “yours” after someone else who helped kill the boss won the roll?
You never addressed the fact that each person in a 25 person raid is entitled to a 4% share per item. If I choose to pass, that’s one option, but what if I’m only there to help a friend gear up, and decide to use my share to help them. Your whole premise of “stealing” is that the winner doesn’t need it, so what if they rolled so they could give it to someone who does?
You’re so close, let’s finish this off. PL is a static 20%, and you’re right, GL changes. It goes lower, but also higher. And before actually figuring in who actually rolls on it, what do you think all those fluctuations average out to? If you answered 20%, you’re right!
So we’re back to when I said changing to PL is the same at best, with a chance at being worse if you have people in group loot who choose not to roll, as their abstentions aren’t included in the 20%.
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It actually never averages out to 20% when you are talking about trinkets which half the raid can and will roll on. That’s the point. An average LFR will have 10-12 people rolling on an intellect trinket like spymaster’s every time.
Nobody cares about random non-tier armor pieces.
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So, someone getting an item they don’t need in PL = fine
Someone getting an item they don’t need in GL = not fine.
Lol, sure, and a flipped coin lands on heads 100% of the time, as long as you exclude any of the times it lands on tails.
Beyond cherry picking data points to force the result you want, if this is the issue you’re having, it’s not about GL vs. PL. Even in PL, you could kill a specific boss over and over again without getting loot, and when you do finally get something, it ends up being the neck instead of the trinket you want.
The discussion you’re actually trying to have is about random vs. deterministic loot, and rightly or wrongly, Blizzard to this point has expressed a strong opposition to non random loot and thinks it’s important for some bis items, like trinkets, to be rare enough that people can’t expect to get them. They believe that expectation minimizes the good feeling someone gets for getting it when it’s rare.
While I understand that perspective, I also understand the frustration that comes from, through raw random chance, you see other people getting something valuable week after week that never comes to you. But either way, personal loot vs. group loot doesn’t address that issue at all.
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No it’s really just that you have a lower chance of winning trinkets under group loot because the chances of winning a roll against 10 people is 10% which is lower than 20%.
It’s simple math
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Math that you’re doing wrong lol.
Right, you’re completely ignoring that there is other loot that brings the chance to 20%, and that your chance of winning a specific trinket in PL is also much lower than 20%.
You’re comparing the chance of getting any piece of loot at all in PL with the chance of getting one specific item in GL. Those two situations aren’t comparable.
You need to either look at the chance of winning any item at all in both systems, 20% for both, or the chance of a specific single item in both systems. That will depend on the item, but will be significantly lower, but most likely actually slightly higher in group loot.
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They are literally not. As stated before, personal loot is STILL rolling need against EVERY other player that can roll need as MS on the item. If 11 of 25 players can use it for MS, then you have 11 need rolls.
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No, that isn’t how personal loot works. It chooses the winning players at random, then those players get a piece of loot from their spec’s loot tables. The makeup of the raid doesn’t affect your chances at all.
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Right, so you’re rolling against the entire raid every time, not half the raid like in group loot.
“Rolling against the whole raid” but there are 5 winners, not 1. So your chances of winning are 20%.
Your chances of winning an actual roll against 9 other players is 10%.
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But you’re still forgetting to multiply that 20% by the drop rate of the item you’re looking for. You’ve made it clear that the only loot that matters is the trinket, so you don’t get the whole 20% here. If the trinket drop rate from your loot table is less than 50%, and it almost certainly is, than your chance of getting it on PL is less than 10%.
It’s actually most likely quite a bit less. Most bosses have 4-5 items that can drop, so even assuming an even drop rate, which isn’t a safe assumption at all, that’s 20-25% for the trinket, which brings your PL chance to 4-5%.
Again, you’re using the PL chance to get any loot but using the GL chance to get the one specific item. This isn’t how the math is done, unless you don’t care about accuracy and just want to try to convince people who don’t understand actual numbers.
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There’s no passing on loot with PL, so unless ppl are trading away unneeded drops, which usually doesn’t happen, PL is the worse option. GL has roll restrictions that PL doesn’t, which are in favor of ppl trying to gear up. Just because you lose a roll on an item doesn’t mean you would’ve had a better chance of getting it with PL. GL has those rare moments when you’re the only person who can win an item that drops.
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