We have estimates, and the estimates for subscribers numbers have always closely predicted the actual sub numbers up until they stopped announcing them. Sure it’s not as accurate as the real thing, but it’s not like we have no idea either.
Also you didn’t answer most of my questions. Anyways fun conversation I guess.
good for him, blizzard needs their dirt out there so they can have players remind them.
I only main Warlock and for me, MoP was the pinnacle of Warlock class design and playstyle.
Reforging and glyphs provided players with meaningful ways of play customisation and we still had enchants and gems being available on multiple items.
No borrowed power, it was gear and playstyle that provided player power.
No endless grinds at max that made you feel you would be punished for not doing everything; it gave you time to explore the world instead of just rushing from one world quest to the next.
Flight at max.
But for me the biggest loss for me was the loss of guildies that left in WoD, most have never returned and I miss that community.
You also needed rep for entry level raid gear to raid the first tier in. The only way to earn that rep at the start was through dailies.
No, not good on him that’s why he got fired. Private conversations held in meetings should never make their way to the public.
pandas caused me to miss the best expansion thats just to bad. you know it and i know it classes were at their best in mop. you just like to argue. and its to bad dailies are here so much cause that ap grind. least when you got your rep up in mop you was done not endless grind wq’s
I’m curious honestly, what is “mop” design? I wasn’t here for MoP or WoD so when people say that, I’m really confused. I guess I effective time travelled from end of Cata to Legion. So the pre-legion time isn’t firmly ingrained in me.
Sounds like… we got the monk class… and some different stats… and that was about it, no?
Before all this borrowed power nonsence, the classes I used to enjoy we’re all from MoP, why? because the class I was playing at the time felt complete and not have huge gabbing holes missing and only way to repair it is via eternal borrowed power systems.
While Borrowed power has existed via thrinkets and tier sets but Classes in MoP even still are fine without them just because they are complete and fun to play, this is why many people look fondly back in Mists of Pandaria is because their class used to be fun and complete, not so unfinished to the point you need to have external borrowed power systems to make up.
While MoP in my opinion had the best class design and regarded as the best expansion, however I will take my rose tinted goggles off and look at some of its issues.
In the first tier of Mists, you need to grind rep to get entry level raid gear, its not one but a couple of others are needed, it may vary on class but than if MoP classic is somehow being worked on, the first phase of MoP classic, the pre-raid gear farming would be is rep grinding and aswell as doing Scenarios for valor and justice, maybe dungeons would give some good pieces but not most of them, while these do lose in value once a tier is released, however if there is a new rep to grind than you may need to do it because it might feel mandatory for pre-raid gear. Mandatory dailies is one of the reasons I don’t look fondly back in MoP just because they reward entry level raid gear for you and even seeing this thing back in BFA but far worse and is mandatory for the progression of your character.
There could be other things I have missed because I have a memory of a goldfish but would I say MoP is the best expansion? maybe but the class design was the best that its ever been and the reason why I hear people telling Blizzard to go back to Mists class design because their class felt complete and fun.
Well because MoP the classes were actually fun to play. Abilities actually did damage. There was “builder/spender” type of gameplay just like now sure. But the “builders” actually did DAMAGE. Backstab, did damage. Mutaliate, did damage. Incinerate, did damage. They weren’t the wet noodles you get to pass your time with until you actually had a button you could press that finally did damage.
That’s the difference between now and then. You’re waiting on resources to finally do damage. But that isn’t enough. You have to wait on CD’s to actually do damage. So many classes are tied to their CD usage. Once their CD is used up they go from like 80k dps to 30k dps.
To make matters worse a lot of classes were stripped of their utility. Like I remember a time when people actually wanted Blessing of Kings. But you just lost abilities that were useful even just to you. Like there’s so many times I’m playing a class and I’m like going “wait where’d my defensive CD go? oh its not in the game anymore” or “hey wait where’d this CC go” or “why doesn’t my destro have fel flame anymore” or “why can’t my rogue use an AoE finisher anymore”.
My blood DK… literally can not summon army of the dead anymore. My rune tap is gone. My ability to refresh all my runes are gone. I lost like half my buttons, sure some of them like obliterate and death strike were a bit redundant so its nice to have only death strike. Same with runestrike and deathcoil. But WHY take away my runetap? Army of the dead? Etc?
My destro lock feels so naked without baseline shadowburn. Or fel flame to use while on the move whenever conflag is on CD. I could go into detail as pretty much any other class and have a similar story. Hell even demon hunters feel naked compared to Legion when they lost a lot of their old talents and that extra aoe ability.
Exactly. I don’t think anyone is claiming that it is perfect. The thing is, we felt our character was powerful; not made powerful by a different system. I don’t care if they needed to change up some homogenization, but wouldn’t you agree that each class essentially being separated into 3 different classes was a bit too far?
The borrowed power systems need to disappear.
Yeah this design is not the answer. We don’t need every expansion to give us new toys to play with. Just fix the stuff that isn’t performing that great or isn’t popular and we’ll be more than happy.
Could have sworn the thread was about class design. Does class design not exist outside of PvP?
I thoroughly believe anyone who fawns over MoP was either a fury, blood, or destro main, it was their first expansion, or they just have really bad taste.
MoP was unbalanced as all hell; the three aforementions specs being leaps and bounds above all else, and many specs just being broken with their gameplay. Frost DK, for example, didn’t even use obliterate in the last patch because to silly mastery scaling, leading to a very boring rotation.
At the same time, homogenization in class utility was atrocious. A few outshined others, but most were left as little more than damage bots with nothing else useful to bring to the table in PvE.
Furthermore, if you think performance discrepancies are bad now, wait until you see logs from MoP. It’s a steady plane, but a cliff.
I. HATED. MoP.
Best thing to do is just watch some of the old-school MoP PvP videos. Check out Legends of the Arena. Really showcases the design and potential of each spec in the game.
Rep wasn’t needed to play the game, I only did rep for the tillers cause I wanted to dice people up.
Still managed to get fully geared and 2500+ in arena during MoP, MoP was the last expansion where I could play and gear how I wanted.
Now I’m on rails more so than ever, if I don’t follow Blizzards to do list I’m weak af and a burden to my group…
Most people who liked MoP were either PvPers (both casual and hardcore) or casual PvEers. Season 15 of MoP was probably the best PvP has ever been, and Timeless Isle, Isle of Giants and Isle of Thunder were all really popular with casual players. That being said, patch 5.4 was probably the most balanced classes had ever been, and Warlocks were all pretty middling in that tier dps-wise outside of insane Affliction snapshotting.
I generally found every class easy enough to get into compared to now going “Oh this class is just garbage until you get insert latest shiny system here.”
Watch a video with old stampede from MoP then go into game and use the new stampede on a hunter, that’s the difference between MoP design and everything post MoP. Trust me it’s a huge difference in how classes play. We also had more transmogs for most classes since they could mog a secondary armor type as long as we could wear it, as well as abilities like spirit bond (like a combination of camouflage mixed with spirit mend minus the stealth and made a constant HoT as long as your spirit beast was alive). A lot of good stuff got removed.
It certainly speaks to MoP’s quality, but it also means that all of those people who unsubbed early in MoP (myself included) did not return. Some returned for WoD because lots of WoW players will still try a new expac, even after they’ve quit.
I’m just not sure MoP deserves to be held up as a shining star. Certain aspects of it sure, but it had serious problems.
Well you’re whining about nitpicky garbage. The “homogenization” was a lot more preferable to just having all our utility and buffs stripped from 90% of the classes. Some things just have never recovered like Blessing of Kings which I’ve missed out on the most. Everytime I play a new class I feel like I’m naked because there’s a button I used to be able to press to buff myself and my group. But I only get that button if I’m a mage, priest, or warrior now.
Horn of Winter? Nope. The warlock int buff? Nope.
The balance you cry about is overblown since mostly everyone was competitive. You can’t cry about homogenization as if everyone was the same then cry about how some specs were just better than the others. In actuality most people were a lot more competitive. There’s always going to be a best and worst but the gap wasn’t as big as you pretend it was.
All the other crap like the mastery scaling and how monk/dk 2h/dualwield crap was like a hotfix away from being fixed. The overall philosophy of the expansion was a lot better than say… the philosophy of borrowed power from legion, BFA, and now SL… with their “meaningful choices” that lock us into one game mode. Because we can no longer just swap freely depending on whether we want to pvp, raid, or dungeon anymore and be BiS.