How can we have a warrior class in WOW without even having the MAIN traits of one, a sword and shield class to fight/dps. It’s not just about fighting style but about character fantasy! I want to go on my warrior with sword and shield in hand dealing lethal blows with one hand and blocking a hit from the next! And I know what you’re gonna say “pLaY pRoTeCtIoN” but i’m not here for a weak class that does 1/4 of the damage as Fury or Arms. I’m here for my Gladiator, my fighter, my warrior who has fought through the ages with sword and shield in hand doing DAMAGE! The classic hero, fighting his way through evil with sword and shield in hand and dealing out punishment to anyone who stand in his way!
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https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/shadowlands-give-gladiator-back-please/352779/117
Literally on the front page man.
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Christ, they really can’t stop.
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These threads are why I don’t support glad stance anymore.
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So…your argument is you don’t want it back because a lot of people want it brought back? Seems to be a rather petulant stance to me.
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Its more the fact that there are so many other post ask for it and every time we deconstruct why its a bad idea and people make new threads all the time.
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‘A lot of people want it’ is also a huge stretch. It’s like the same 20 people posting over and over.
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Most people didn’t even play the spec competitively in PvE or PvP too.
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I understand why Blizzard dont want to put it back in, But I do look back fondly on WoD and being able to play that way. If they brought it back, id be happy, but I dont think any amount of forum posting will help.
So, serious question for you (or anyone else who wants to answer). What do you actually want? The character fantasy of being a DPS character with a sword and shield, or the actual mechanics of using the Prot ability set as a DPS spec?
Because the thing is, the first might be possible while the latter very much isn’t. There’s no Bonus Armor stat to convert like in WoD. Tank durability now comes from a mix of passives and cooldowns that would have to be significantly pruned for a DPS spec. And even the buttons that are attacks are heavy on the uncapped AoE, which is also a no-no for melee in Shadowlands.
Converting Prot to DPS would be harder than just building a new spec from the ground up. So if what people really want is the class fantasy of being a sword and board DPS character, then ask for that.
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So this is a totally fair question, and I think that’s what makes it so hard for blizzard because when someone says they want it back, some mean different things.
For starters, Glad stance isnt a whole new spec, its a talent that alters the prot spec. This kind of talent already exists in the game. (see Rising Mist for Mistweaving) This turns monk healers into Healing DPS hybrids. It isnt a hard to imagine that they could do this with protection. Simply have the talent activate a mode which buffs the damage of some abilities and nerfs their threat generated/ survivability. Maybe turning a major Defensive into a DPS CD instead.
Whether that is balanced or not isn’t the point, as numbers can be adjusted later. But I remember when Glad was a thing, it was really nice to have the flexibility of jumping between tank and dps without having to do too much with gear. It provided a unique feel to the class that we hadn’t seen before and haven’t seen since.
Ill be honest, my memories of that time might be a bit rose tinted, but I think it would be a fun addition to the spec as a whole, and I dont think giving people more options with how they want to play is ever a bad thing.
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The dynamic for Disc Priests and Mistweave Monks is totally different. There’s a balance between healing output and damage done, the damage done is never close to a true DPS, and they can swap between styles depending on the needs of the moment. But with a tank/DPS hybrid it’s much more all or nothing.
Tank spots are limited in groups and require someone with the full tank toolkit. A full tank who can easily swap to doing higher damage while not actively tanking is better than every other tank in the game, which is why Feral Druids got split into two specs. Meanwhile someone in a DPS spot has to do full DPS damage or they’re a drag on the group. But if someone does full DPS damage while having even half of a tank’s durability and defensive cooldowns they’re better than every other DPS in the game, especially in PvP.
There’s no good way to split this up. Someone in a tank role needs to be able to tank, someone in a DPS role has to be able to do full DPS, but you can’t give a tank more DPS or a DPS more durability without breaking game balance.
You misunderstand the function of the talent. Its not a “dps who can tank” its a Dps, full stop. It just uses skills similar in name to what prot uses. Where Disc is a hybrid at base design, and Mist can be a hybrid with a talent, Glad stance turns Prot into a full DPS spec. What made this talent cool is that while you had it on, you were another dps, smackin bosses, dealing big deeps, or you could take this talent off and other than trinkets, be geared competently as a tank. It allowed for unprecedented levels of hybridization.
Like I said before. Its not likely to be brought it back, but it was a cool thing when we had it and I would be happy if we had it back.
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No, I get that. My guild had someone who raided as Gladiator in WoD. I’m just trying to point out that it was a clumsy toggle then and is completely impossible now.
You have to strip out the Vanguard passive that increases your stamina and armor and the Parry passive that gives you parry for crit. You have to strip out the invisible tank traits that multiply threat and prevent being crit. As a DPS you’re allowed one defensive cooldown, so that leaves Last Stand and means you’ve got to prune Shield Wall and Demo Shout. The upgrades to Ignore Pain also have to go. And they might have to look at Shield Block, since unlike Arms and Fury you’ll have access to it all the time.
So now you’ve got a rotation of Devestate, Shield Slam, Thunder Clap, Revenge, and Execute. Which isn’t much of a rotation. But you’re going to have to strip the snare from Thunder Clap, and put target caps on Thunder Clap and Revenge, and probably tweak how Revenge works since you’re not taking hits.
But now that you’ve done all that… what about the talents? How many talents just plain don’t work with all those changes, or give extra durability that isn’t in the budget for a full DPS character? So now you have to start building modifiers or alternatives to the talent tree.
See what I mean about it being easier to just build a new sword and board spec from scratch?
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I have long thought that each class should have a 4th spec. If your argument is just that there should be a 4th spec to fulfill a Gladiator style of play, then I agree. My only argument for Glad stance coming back is simply that its all we had.
As someone who played Glad stance, I enjoyed the paired down rotation, and all the caveats you mentioned about moving stats around to make the spec less tanky makes it sound like an insurmountable task, but when it was around, it worked and for some it was fun.
You can disagree on its viability, but it feels like you’d rather I reach the conclusion that I am wrong for having enjoyed it, but Im not. I appreciate that your opinion differs from me, but I dont really understand the argument that it shouldnt exist, rather than just finding a way for it to exist and you can choose to play it or not.
Regardless, it sounds like we agree, youd just rather it be its own thing, rather than being a talent shoehorned into an established spec.
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It would be strange if the reasoning to not bring glad stance is the difficulty to balance or tuning it. Since Druids are getting Symbiosis which was a nightmare back when it was live. Glad stance could come back as a PvP talent allowing players to use it in open world and in PvP but restricting its use in dungeons and raids where its ability to do dps but be very tanky cannot be abused. What is weird is that when Glad stance was live it wasnt the top in either PvP or Pve. It was more a meme spec used in battlegrounds and was powerful for that.
I would like to see it come back as something smaller that maybe restricts the cd use in prot but brings the dps up on the abilities so it allows warriors to use shield and sword without being a tank. Lore wise this would be great.
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Im with ya on it i loved it in WoD I want it back alot of people do but they are allergic to fun and what people want
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Atleast let us transmog it
This:
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i dont think glad stance is a good idea 
normal stance/defensive stance works for me, more stances just adds an illusion of depth but really brings nothing but hassles, both for the player and the developers.
i think?