Brewmasters do have too many buttons overall. I understand its is the hardest tanks to master. Its has more than any other Classes alone (not specs). If you try to max out the buttons to pull damage you cant use most of them effectively as one will come back up with the gcd usage. Yet using your defensives top of that.
with everything you can have 30 buttons that can be use an dungeons for minimum use. plus trinkets and potions. etc
I do not mind the versatility we have but we have been spread out too thin and we lost our spec feeling. just feels like an windwalker that can take hits
10 Likes
āHard to masterā =/= ābutton bloatā
VDH has the fewest buttons but itās vehemently hard to tank at high end keys.
Brew isnāt hard, itās just button bloated. Brew talent tree does require some rework, imo.
6 Likes
Yes but maybe pruning 1 or 2 buttons would be fine. I really donāt want to become a 4 button tank like a few others, the appeal of Brewmaster is how engaging and fun it is. Also, I agree with the above poster, too many buttons does not equal harder to master it just means you need to be a little more situationally aware. VDH has less buttons but is much easier to mess up and die on.
Yeah itās definitely button bloat. Thatās definitely adding to the learning curve, and punishes you for extend periods of not playing. The more characters/specs you play the harder it is to remember and do it smoothly.
1 Like
button bloat is huge, thats what i am saying. At of the day 30 button+ is nearing druids in warth and cata as having 40+ buttons. Not in use all of the time but still is the highest in buttons in use. most specs have 10-20 in dungeon use. not counting portals or noncombat buttons.
the tree need to be rework into output and defense sides. removing that damm movement one that noone uses and fixes the odd ones. letting us chose the style we want not this BDB and WoO for everything barely give us single target as our stuff is 90% aoe (bok and rsk) TP we have to use an talent or 2 for buffing it to do somewhat high damage. most of the fights have adds in raid so not even worth it.
Super casual opinion here: Honestly an option to do a flaming keg smash instead of using BoF would be huge. Warriors have Thundercalp that applies rend, why cant we have a Keg smash that applies BoF? I feel like that, plus maybe adding Rushing Jade wind to proc from certain abilities (SCK or RSK) could be massive for quality of life.
Currently using the special delivery build, and its very nice having one button less, but that itself doesnt fix the issue. I find on my monk I am focusing way too much on my rotation and not enough on the actual encounter. Combining BoF and Keg Smash could help us a lot without negating our complexity entirely. This OR we could add BoF effect to RSK. Like, a burst of fire goes out from it, applying the dot/debuff. That could be awesome, AND give RSK a more meaningful press. Just change the BoF talent to potentially reset RSK cooldown.
4 Likes
Exactly!!
More isnāt always better or āharderā. Compare Go vs Chess. Brewmaster is hard mainly due to far too many buttons that all do basically the same thing with just a slightly different CD, requiring far too many key binds. And (like all monks) obscure and poorly designed talents that overlap in weird and unintuitive ways.
Stagger/shuffle is a cool idea, and there is certainly room for skill expression in its implementationā¦ but atm the major difficulty is in understanding the talent tooltips, not in actually playing the class.
Its not an hard spec to play its compare the other tanks the button bloat is still one of the biggest problem. I am not saying its isnt messy and poorly designed. Its with the new talent system added spells form other 2 specs made brew feel washed out and donāt feel that drunken master. Just an guy that can take hits and do kicks. in-game combat feels like we are just waiting on an bar to fill than half it. Most of the time you want the bar to be full to do more damageā¦that makes sense on an TANK (that meant to reduce damage intake). donāt give me that how it meant be ātake more damage than do moreā. than just play an warrior. take no damage and do the same or more.
In all it loss a lot this xpack brew need to be redesigned. To have that dodge master and counterattack feeling. Revenge on warrior hitting back dodging or parry an attack. Most of brewmaster in real life is best at hitting peoples weak points, pushing and pulling people.
Brew could probably lose tiger palm and RSK, then just have blackout kit be the no-cd spammable. No real difference in how it plays at that point. Thatās basically what DK has with heart strike. Itād take some significant talent changes to get to that point, but thatās two buttons that in the heat of a fight donāt really do anything flashy by themselves other than damage. RJW would probably be better as an effect of doing the rotation rather than the short cd annoyance it is currently. I always envisioned brewmaster as more of the weaponry/brew side of monk rather than using so much of their fists anyways.
The ground target stuff needs to be toned down a lot too. Ground targets in the middle of a rotation might be the most annoying thing in game. Bonedust brew could probably just become a targeted aoe (many DO macro it that way currently but it isnāt ideal in some cases), white tiger statue would preferably be nuked from orbit until nothing remains, and Dave is fine he can stay.
The defensives could do with either combining or bigger cooldown reduction talents. Fortifying brew could just gain an extra charge, diffuse magic could gain another, zen med could go, and maybe dampen harm not available to brew. Dampen harm could also turn into 2 charges of fortifying brew too I suppose with fort talents. None of those are really ideal solutions but possible ones. The DPS cooldowns similarly could do with either some reductions or combining. You might combine the effects of bonedust and exploding keg, or possibly just rid of invoke then bake some of that power in elsewhere.
On the utility side transcendence could become a combined button. First press drops it, second press activates. FFXIV did something similar with the gunbreaker combo and on red mage. Crackling jade could go, but maybe get replaced with a throw staff or something. I want to hit em with all the fury of Donatelloās staff. Use that and dump chi wave. Soothing mist I donāt feel has much of a place on brew either.
2 Likes
Idk I feel like the only gripe (button bloat wise) I have would be upkeeping rjw, charred passions uptime on-top of paying attention to counterstrike & tier set upkeep, and rolling gcd relative to priority and buff upkeep; and Iām sorta fine with how it is (except maybe rjw).
There are viable options to reduce buttons (rushed delivery instead of rjw, dragonfire brew to ignore uptime, also Iām liking a build where I completely remove bonedust for zero tolerance and pretense).
In terms of defensives, youāre just mostly cycling through cd usage while maintaining stagger, and paying attention to tankbusters to gcd celestial brew. I donāt feel like theres a lot of button bloat for defensives but idk.
I sorta wish talents had more options, I donāt utilize Invoke Niuzao, and I would like to not take it and be able to pick exploding keg. I also dont like any of the totems
As a brewmaster since MoP, Iād rather see the amount of extra buttons we have get looked at rather than start talking about dropping Tiger Palm or Rushing Jade Wind or other long-standing rotational abilities, namely: the really boring capstones. Weapons of Order and Bonedust Brew are all flavors of underwhelming. They donāt really feel good to press, they donāt feel impactful to you as a player. You donāt change up your rotation and the make the already largely passive parts of our kit justā¦hit harder. Whoo.
Exploding Keg at least has some niche uses in cheesing certain physical attacks if you time it right.
7 Likes
yaā¦ my wrist is usually sore after tanking a run as BrM!! lol so many buttonsā¦ love it thoughā¦
I whole hardly disagree that brewmaster is not a difficult spec to play. For me itās easy, but Iāve also been a world top raider during my early years that played for 18. So Iām often playing multiple classes and specs at high level game plays every week.
And the reason why I know that brewmasters difficult to play because Iāve only run into one or two this entire season that werenāt completely trash. Most dungeons of Brewmaster should be out healing the healer and should be positioned either above the third place DPS or just below it. Unless youāre in an organized group, I want to play Brewmaster should be a very high performing spec.
1 Like
I donāt like this at all. Being able to reposition your transcendence before use is highly useful.
4 Likes
I mean you have 4 world first, former theory crafter and guide writer, Iām pretty sure my opinions carry some merit.
Kinda agree with the button bloat although Iām used it now.
Magic mitigation with BRM is a much bigger problem tho.
Just my noob option back in SL S4 when everything was casual I try to play Brew for fun. it was not bad. Then DF and man way too many buttons and too many stuff to look out for.
I felt more stress playing it than any other dps (expect healer I will never heal again in WoW). Mainly there are too many buttons to press and I have not even got the brews and when to use them yet. Really helps if they could remove some of the button on it. I have no issue playing a guaridan, warriorm, pally heck even a VDH and meh on BDK but the amount of buttons on Brews really turn me away.
The overlapping Cds to do max damage in window is insane, I feel it too much buttons overall. to make it work. the capstones in the talents are just underwhelming. just adding button bloat and adds mostly damage. its does NOT makes it fun. if the idea is to pop everything on pull and have low on cds to press even its main an def cd to do more damage. thats how bear tanks are 2min -3min heroes pulling huge. I dont want that in every tank.
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Holy hell, I watched trellbrew and equinox a few times, they didnāt achive such feasts. You must play with godlike brews, who have been hidden from the community.
Anyway, brew has quite a lot of cds but most of them arenāt impactful. It doesnāt feel fun for me to have a myriad of mini cds instead of a few big hit buttons.
For example: a single divine toll feels way more satisfying than both BDB and EK combined
1 Like
