I checked logs of top tanks. All tanks are quite balanced and received around the same amount of external healing by healers. However, this “all tanks” doesn’t include brew; brew requires twice more healing from healers than other tanks while its damage taken per second is only lower than blood DK. I have no idea how blizzard can leave brew as it is right now and seemly thinks brew is fine.
5 Likes
Its always been like this but the self healing nerfs compound the issue to the point brew is unplayable.
5 Likes
Brew is 1000% playable. It’s just worse than Warrior and Druid (and I guess we’re kind of getting lapped by Paladins now). We definitely need buffs but if you’re finding it unplayable that’s a you problem.
2 Likes
Paladins are now #2 behind Prot warrior. Blood DK is the closest to us right now, and they are getting a huge buff next week. I hope we’re next.
3 Likes
It’s just a dmg buff. I don’t think it will change anything.
The best part of playing Brew in the past was that no matter how much damage we took in the past, we could smooth it away.
Yes, we still needed plenty of healer help, but we had much better self-sustain.
Now, we can still smooth damage intake so it trickles our healthpool (after big hits), but our self-sustain isn’t as powerful so we rely on healers more.
If they gave us back the 50% or even 30% healing on Fire Damage Done, that would be top notch and imo bring Brew more in line with the other tanks.
This change wouldnt really affect Raids, keeping us where we are, but it would definitely make a difference in M+.
We can still tank 10+ as well as other tanks, it just takes a bit of effort.
3 Likes
Can you show me how you came to this ? Like where this is on raider. io - or did you do some sort of excel math wizardry to get to this conclusion ? I would really love to see this info for myself
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I checked on warcraft logs for one dungeon at one key level that was timed by all tank classes. Then I compared the damage taken per second vs healing done per second. The difference between them must be compensated by healer.
Brew doesn’t have smooth dmg intake anymore; only warrior does thank to ignore pain.
I find brew’s hp is spikey despite devs stated that they intentionally made brew the worst mitigation tank fot the sake of stagger. This design typically destroys brew in m+.
I think you’re right. Brew is viable, it’s not the top performer but you can do competitive level keys. Mordrim is proving that as he’s a key or 2 levels below the highest rated tanks.
Brews do need a buff, but that’s the thing. I’m not entirely sure where we need it most. Our damage intake/defensives could be better. Our self sustain could be better. Our initial threat gen could be loads better and I think our utility kit could be improved. Because while all of these aren’t great, they still work, albeit less effectively than other tanks kits.
Is it just a matter of tuning each department slightly? Do we need an entire face lift? What niche do we fill? Are we the dodge tank? The dps tank? The shield generator tank? I don’t feel like we excel at any of these. I think that’s the major problem, our niche is stagger, but that doesn’t really paint the picture of what a brew does. Our hp fluctuates like a DKs but our self sustain is worse than theirs. Our damage intake is smoother, but not as much as a warriors. And as far as damage goes, I think pal and vdh and even wars with spell reflect shenanigans outclass us.
Anyways sorry for the rant. I like this class a lot but I don’t know what I really bring to the table that would set me apart from other tanks.
2 Likes
I’ve not sure where this starts. I’ve ran a +12 Stonevault, short time but up to the last boss, where I recall the disc priest in my party healed me 33% of his healing and 66% of that healing was Atonement. Is it true that Warrior and Bear take so much less healing effort than this? I feel like healers cannot know when brew actually needs heals because they can’t know our healing orb stacks (Thanks Blizzard). If anyone has a static healer and wants to share this info with their healer through WA, let me know if that would be useful and I’ll publish one I have working.
But absolutely we have no niche and Brew needs love.
- We aren’t the control tank ( That goes to DH )
- We aren’t mitigation gods and never have been ( That’s warrior )
- We aren’t the sustain tanks so much ( Thats DK and Guardian )
- And now we aren’t the damage dealing tanks ( That’s protection paladin after the patch )
But given the track record of Blizzard with its updates as of late, I’m almost scared to have them touch the class I play.
1 Like
I don’t want to see a rework, I like the fundamentals of the spec and recent spec reworks small or large have been questionable. I just want a few nudges aimed at m+.
Reduce damage we take in aoe, increase frequency and consistency of heals and buff Celestial Brew so its actually effective against tank busters in trash (its so low it often gets eaten up for white damage and stagger). Some increased Brew cd in aoe wouldn’t hurt either.
Safe to say being meta isn’t a priority for people still playing brew at this point. We don’t have to be the best, we just want some quality of life improvements.
2 Likes
Yes, you can check that on warcraft logs. And personally, I never took more than 30% of healer’s overall healing on prot war; usually it’s around 21-25%.
Blizzard already officially stated before TWW launch that they intentionally made brew take more dmg than other tanks for the sake of its “smooth damage intake”. But comparing personal experience is irrelevant due to the difference in dungeon, gear, key level, party, and routes. Logs for the same key level and same dungeon would be a better reference.
Healers can’t track tanks’ self heal sources like DH’s souls, pally’s shinning light. Even if they can track DK’s runic power, they still can’t heal a dry DK. Without communication, the best they can do is to track your def cds, throw some externals, or do some healing after a tank burster.
1 Like
Mordrim is an outlier. No other tank spec has that large of a gap between world 1 and 2. Can’t design a spec around a guy.
3 Likes
Was having this convo with a friend of mine during a grim batol this weekend. He “rescued” me but accidentally put me into a pack of warlocks I didn’t want lol. He said “I saw you you were low”
I could only respond with “I was sitting on 5 orbs. I wish you could see them. They’re about as good as a death strike.”
Honestly after comparing a huge expel harm with a decent death strike it got me wishing we had something like blood shield (chi shield maybe) after using expel. Make it work like celestial brew with purified chi. Like 5 orbs is a bigger shield than 1 orb. Idk something.
My regular healer who I’ve been paying with in various tanks since legion commented in our discord that her out tanks in 11s are often neck and neck with her on healing throughput. If the idea was to reduce tank self heals, it doesn’t seem like all of them got the memo.
Well thats definately NOT a warrior tank - they block and never even recieve the damage so nothing to ‘heal’ there … Death Knight - well DK should be double the healer throughput … Druid tanks … well maybe … DH’s … I mean the list goes on …
take a closer look at the healers in details : i can almost guarantee (from my own logs that is) healers are averaging 30% overhealing on the tank for the dungeon
so … i mean … yea …
Thats because Warriors ‘block’ incoming damage so they never have to ‘heal’ that
1 Like
Not sure here. Here is the warcraft logs for a 12:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/39#boss=12652&metric=hps&bracket=12
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/39#boss=12652&metric=hps&bracket=12&class=Priest&spec=Discipline
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/39#boss=12652&metric=dps&bracket=12&class=Monk&spec=Brewmaster
21-25% would be amazing. Looks like brews are getting ~10% more of the healers overall healing than other tanks…
Addon’s can share all of this info, though indirectly not through the unit aura info however through SendAddonMessage.
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/API_SendAddonMessage
It’s always super unclear what is allowed to be done in terms however.
1 Like
The gap between 20% and 30% is not 10%, it’s 30%/20%-100%=50% in difference.
Modrim has around 67% dmg mitigation, a prot war has around 83% dmg mitigation. The difference in mitigation gap is 33%/17%=2. Brew is taking twice more dmg than a prot war.
4 Likes
I believe I’ve worded this correctly but yes I roughly agree with your Math.
(30-20) / 20 X 100 = 50
The numbers look to be about 29% to 39% (for Guardian Druid) which is less exaggerated than 50% more healing to the tank but still bad.
(39 - 29) / 29 x 100 = 34%
Some keys look to be about 17% for prot warrior ± 1%:
which is more than double the healing required, at 129% ((39 - 17) / 17 x 100 = 129%).
And this is using the runs that I’ve posted above at a 12 key level. But if we’ve found anything about patch notes in recent memory Blizzard isn’t using data to tweak classes.
1 Like
Tbh, using % overall healing can be used as a reference but not an evidence as it relies on team comp, and your party skills, as well as gear, and key lvl, etc.
You can always check logs by using damage taken per second subtracted by self-heal per second, then you will know the number of healing that healer has to invest into you.
Using logs of the top keys is more relevant because they have similar gear, similar pulls, with optimal team comps.