Is this the only viable frost DK spec? PvE and PvP?
I am considering alternatives for my enhancement shaman, but I really dont like the idea of so much of my dps being tied to a 2 min cooldown. (Which is why i dont like using ascendence either.)
It just seems odd for a dual wielding class to have their hardest hitting ability be a spell cast.
Do you guys enjoy Breath gameplay?
I watched a video about Frost where the guy said BoS is completely unusable in PvP (and Frost Wyrm is in a similar but less bad situation) and that you should use Obliteration instead. Basically having such a long cooldown ability that requires the enemy to stand still is ineffective.10/30/2018 07:55 PMPosted by KahnIs this the only viable frost DK spec? PvE and PvP?
I am considering alternatives for my enhancement shaman, but I really dont like the idea of so much of my dps being tied to a 3 min cooldown. (Which is why i dont like using ascendence either.)
It just seems odd for a dual wielding class to have their hardest hitting ability be a spell cast.
Do you guys enjoy Breath gameplay?
10/30/2018 08:16 PMPosted by MaelfarionI watched a video about Frost where the guy said BoS is completely unusable in PvP (and Frost Wyrm is in a similar but less bad situation) and that you should use Obliteration instead. Basically having such a long cooldown ability that requires the enemy to stand still is ineffective.10/30/2018 07:55 PMPosted by KahnIs this the only viable frost DK spec? PvE and PvP?
I am considering alternatives for my enhancement shaman, but I really dont like the idea of so much of my dps being tied to a 3 min cooldown. (Which is why i dont like using ascendence either.)
It just seems odd for a dual wielding class to have their hardest hitting ability be a spell cast.
Do you guys enjoy Breath gameplay?
Yea exactly. Also its predictable AF. Wait for Frost DK to use a 3 min CD, use a defensive.
Not only is it impractical, its boring af to have that much power tied to an ability with such a long CD.
...but I really dont like the idea of so much of my dps being tied to a 3 min cooldown.
it could always be worse... like an 8min cd.
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It’s so lame we only have bos apex that can do any sort of damage as frost. It just doesn’t play well for a melee.
BoS is for the PvE build and as people above mentioned, is not good for PvP. It's very easily countered and unless the target is going to remain stationary for 10 seconds, it just doesn't work.
They really need to retune BoS to act more like Eye Beam for DH or simply remove it entirely and retune Remorseless Winter, which is already an AE on a reasonable cooldown, to replace it.
They really need to retune BoS to act more like Eye Beam for DH or simply remove it entirely and retune Remorseless Winter, which is already an AE on a reasonable cooldown, to replace it.
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The obliteration build for PvP requires versatility. All of the versatility. Without it, you don't hit as hard and you're too squishy to survive. Playing it will feel like frozen excrement. If you are looking for valid alternatives to your Enhancement Shaman, this is not the place to look. I suggest Demon Hunter, they are pretty strong in all content and don't feel like trying to sprint a marathon with Azeroth chained to your balls.
The real reason why BoS is awful in pvp right now, while it is just really easy to shut down and most people can spot it and do so without much effort, the real thing that makes it hot dog doo is that there's a hidden pvp nerf to it, same as cold heart and frostwyrm's fury.
This actually happens a lot, where they'll reduced the damage of abilities only in pvp and leave their pve damage the same, but not make it known other than in the patch notes that anything happened.
The only way you can tell is that once you get into pvp combat, the tooltip will change to reflect the new lower damage. In this case, BoS is nerfed to 50% normal damage in pvp, I believe frostwyrm and cold heart are all the way down to 35% normal damage in pvp.
It's pretty absurd. Never use any of these talents in pvp until you see any patch notes saying that this has changed, because all their damage is currently pitiful, and I like to think I don't often tell people to completely avoid, under any circumstances, some talents.
This actually happens a lot, where they'll reduced the damage of abilities only in pvp and leave their pve damage the same, but not make it known other than in the patch notes that anything happened.
The only way you can tell is that once you get into pvp combat, the tooltip will change to reflect the new lower damage. In this case, BoS is nerfed to 50% normal damage in pvp, I believe frostwyrm and cold heart are all the way down to 35% normal damage in pvp.
It's pretty absurd. Never use any of these talents in pvp until you see any patch notes saying that this has changed, because all their damage is currently pitiful, and I like to think I don't often tell people to completely avoid, under any circumstances, some talents.
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I'm trying real hard to get used to Frost in PvE when I'm not tanking. How long exactly should I be able to maintain a usage of BoS? I feel like mine last like 15 seconds and I'm following guides pretty closely. But I also feel like it's supposed to last longer than that from what I've read.
That build is boring as hell to play. I played DK since it was introduced and this is the first time i don't even bother really even logging it on. I don;t care if the ability is huge dps in PvE, it's fkin boring. They need to retool the entire frost spec.
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frost dk is absurdly strong in pve and I hate it. breath of sin is so utterly stupid and playing around it makes me sick.
I have swapped back and forth between war and dk forever so my main 2 toons and I cant stand playing my dk now. I would rather be weaker with better faster gameplay like legion.
plus we are abnormally squishy now
I have swapped back and forth between war and dk forever so my main 2 toons and I cant stand playing my dk now. I would rather be weaker with better faster gameplay like legion.
plus we are abnormally squishy now
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I love the BoS build. It was fun to play with back in Nighthold and it's fun to play with in Uldir. You need to pre-plan your fights since your DPS is front loaded during your burst phases. Playing your burst phase correctly rewarded you greatly, playing it badly punished you.
I hated the Obliteration build that was introduced in Antorus. Really had no resource management or fight pre-planning required.
I hated the Obliteration build that was introduced in Antorus. Really had no resource management or fight pre-planning required.
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incoming breath nerf in 3....2....1....
11/01/2018 07:30 PMPosted by Slashdozerincoming breath nerf in 3....2....1....
They would be cutting the legs off Frost if they did this. I just don't understand the mentality of players.
The spec is #1 in overall performance for Uldir and you STILL complain.
Be happy your class is not at the bottom. Don't like the playstyle? CHoose another class, or spec into UH!
I find BoS boring. You pool 60 runic and pop your macro. Spend runes not runic until its over....
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11/01/2018 12:44 PMPosted by GhannonI love the BoS build. It was fun to play with back in Nighthold and it's fun to play with in Uldir. You need to pre-plan your fights since your DPS is front loaded during your burst phases. Playing your burst phase correctly rewarded you greatly, playing it badly punished you.
I hated the Obliteration build that was introduced in Antorus. Really had no resource management or fight pre-planning required.
I disagree that it involves that much thought. I hate that our damage is tied to a single cooldown that is really simple to 'plan'
1. Do you have at least 60 RP?
2. Do you have at least 3 runes up?
3. Do you have major cooldowns like PoF, ERW, and trinkets up?
4. Has the boss used CC/run out of raid moves/is not about to transition?
If the answer to all of the above is yes, pop Breathe and every time you get to ~60 RP swing an oblit out while weaving in rime procs as needed. Sure you can mess it up pretty bad but it's more a 'do you know exactly how this boss works and phases?' question vs a 'can you properly manage your resources and abilities?'. If DKs had anything else to do outside of breathe other than oblit to fs I would agree that it would be more exciting but I would much rather have a spec built around managing our resources and runes better vs pooling up for a big damage dump. Then while your breath is down you get to hit like a wet noodle
undead dk attempted to gank me the other week while I was in blood spec lul and he popped breath and I honestly just keep running through him and he kept having to turn around haha only got like 2 ticks of the ability.
11/02/2018 12:11 PMPosted by SaarîI find BoS boring. You pool 60 runic and pop your macro. Spend runes not runic until its over....
You have no say since you haven't even done an LFR......
11/02/2018 07:47 PMPosted by Fluffers11/01/2018 12:44 PMPosted by GhannonI love the BoS build. It was fun to play with back in Nighthold and it's fun to play with in Uldir. You need to pre-plan your fights since your DPS is front loaded during your burst phases. Playing your burst phase correctly rewarded you greatly, playing it badly punished you.
I hated the Obliteration build that was introduced in Antorus. Really had no resource management or fight pre-planning required.
I disagree that it involves that much thought. I hate that our damage is tied to a single cooldown that is really simple to 'plan'
1. Do you have at least 60 RP?
2. Do you have at least 3 runes up?
3. Do you have major cooldowns like PoF, ERW, and trinkets up?
4. Has the boss used CC/run out of raid moves/is not about to transition?
If the answer to all of the above is yes, pop Breathe and every time you get to ~60 RP swing an oblit out while weaving in rime procs as needed. Sure you can mess it up pretty bad but it's more a 'do you know exactly how this boss works and phases?' question vs a 'can you properly manage your resources and abilities?'. If DKs had anything else to do outside of breathe other than oblit to fs I would agree that it would be more exciting but I would much rather have a spec built around managing our resources and runes better vs pooling up for a big damage dump. Then while your breath is down you get to hit like a wet noodle
Apparently the spec eludes you as well as your DPS sucks according to your Logs...
How am I out dps'ing you in just about every fight and I'm >20 ilvls lower than you.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/21983910?mode=detailed&zone=19#difficulty=3&bybracket=1
L2Play the spec and maybe your complaints will go away.
10/30/2018 08:41 PMPosted by KahnYea exactly. Also its predictable AF. Wait for Frost DK to use a 3 min CD, use a defensive.
Not only is it impractical, its boring af to have that much power tied to an ability with such a long CD.
BoF is 2 min not 3 min. But it's no more predictable than unholy burst (or any CD burst for that matter).
The 3 min CD (aka the awesome dragon of doom) also does't give a fk about pillars. It's a big spike of damage that you can't pillar hump to escape. It's deserving of a 3 min CD imo and neither of the other 2 talents are impressive enough to compete with an attack that can end someone who thought they were safe.
But it all comes down to team comp. If the other team has the freedom to go "don't pop defensive CDs until the DK pops CDs" then how bad is your comp that they fear your CD more than anything else? Like, they'll what, ignore spin to win etc and eat that damage to save defensives for BoS? In this meta where frost gets to the 2k+ as often as a tank spec? DKs can compliment a team, they won't carry it. Otherwise they'd have a higher representation in the high end. So if they only save CDs to use against you, then you simply need a better comp.
With that said, I do think Oblit is a better arena choice simply because it creates smaller but more frequent pressure moments that can force out defensive and helps my team maximize their big burst moments. Spiky damage from procs that causes bursts of pressure is what frost does best, so I like to do more of that.
But that's arena. I'm not really a fan of DK arena, there's just far better classes that will do infinitely better are are simply more fun in the environment. The lack of mobility is not all that fun there. But if you take frost to BGs or Rbgs...that huge burst of aoe every 2-3 min at key moments can make a large impact. The dragon also comes with a snare on top of it's spike of damage. I really enjoy frost in that kind of environment.
In PvE i find BoS to be fun. The other 2 talents are incredibly boring. You have some freedom with other talents. There's a 1-2% dps difference with previous tiers. The other 2 talents need to be buffed because theirs a 10% dps difference switching from BoS. But in the end most people would just complain how boring those other 2 are since they really don't make the playstyle more interesting. Imo you either like the way frost plays or you don't. BoS doesn't make a big impact in how it plays the other 2 min. And even then, the only difference it makes is that you don't spend runic during that phase. The other 2 talents really don't make frost play noticeably different. So "BoS is boring and we want options" is silly imo because BoS is the most interesting of the lvl 100 talents. The other 2 talents could be Azerite traits for how interesting they are.
"I don't like that my damage is tied to a burst window" - these people should be playing another class with boring steady damage and not a spec that's proc reliant and basically lives on burst moments and has since it was added to the game in Wrath.
Personally, I think frost is fun. I try to play well whether BoS is going or not so I don't think of it as my "OMG I HAVE TO DO GOOD NOW OR SUCK" moment. It's just part of my play every 2 min and I will work it as well as I can. I wish they'd buff the other 2 talents, just because a 10% dps difference is substantial and people should have choices. But if they were within 1-2% of each other I'd still play BoS just because I've tried the other 2 and BoS was simply more fun.
Frost is numbingly boring. You spend all your time waiting for cooldowns.
The big one BoS is where all your dps comes from only works if the enemy doesn't move and you don't get interrupted. Its just stupid design.
The big one BoS is where all your dps comes from only works if the enemy doesn't move and you don't get interrupted. Its just stupid design.