these were not in the patch notes likely because these are not final or anything and its possible we won’t even see these enter the game, but it seems like there’s 2 distinctly different versions of a breath rework, but it seems like blizzard is internally testing a complete breath of sindragosa overhaul.
1: Breath of Sindragosa (passive)
2: Might of the Frozen Throne (looks like a pillar of frost replacement)
What are your thoughts on these? I think that Breath’s gameplay has often been degenerate and so i’m not against a rework as long as it keeps the theme of active extension. this is why i personally lean towards the Breath of Sindragosa passive node that activates when you use pillar, rather than this new Might of the Frozen Throne one. since that one seems to work like old bonestorm, which isn’t bad, but its different to breath extension gameplay.
my other concern is how this clearly shifts it away from runic power spending, as well as tying more power to pillar of frost. it’d be interesting to test though. at least you would be able to utilise frost strike in both of these versions.
If this is real, and we do get it, honestly seems like a much better way than before.
We need to see it and test it ourselves If their is any real changes and stuff but just “on paper” it looks better then before, hopefully we also get effect updates like other classes are getting as well.
im convinced its real by the fact that its on Wowhead and it was added during Undermine(d). it may not come to the game though, and if it does, it might even be different than how its shown here.
BoS consumes 60 RP (probably 20% chance to not give you an extra rune on top of already making one from Runic Empowerment) when erecting your PoF (Giggidy) and now makes Runes increasing its duration rather than Runic Power. Equivalent to a change from 17 RP spent to 10 RP spent relative to the Rune/RP Resource. Lasting initially 6 seconds.
And…
Might of the Frozen Throne consumes ALL your RP to increase your Strength that lasts a second for each 10 Runic Power. With capped Runic Power, it would last 10 seconds (11 seconds if using Runic Command).
While these look promising in terms of Runic Power payoff, my biggest gripe with these would be how they would interact with Runic Empowerment… As in, getting your runes back.
BoS has been the only RP Payoff for a very long time that also doesn’t cost Globals. A very powerful ability even though it got numerically nerfed over the years and made the spec a bit more polarizing. But my biggest gripe would be removing the the “Generating 2 Runes from start and end” and anytime inbetween.
Now with these, you won’t have any passive ways to get your runes back. BoS is pretty much like Conversion from the WoD days and it seems like they are removing it in favor of spending more runes for it.
TL;DR Not a big fan. But I like the premise of more RP payoff abilities though. Just need to generate more Runes.
Depending on the talent tree structure, if things generally remain the same, you have access to FE, ME, and Obliteration all of which can generate runes on top of being able to potentially use FS/GA during these windows. Doesn’t seem like much of an issue or difference in that regard.
I like the direction, but seems like too small of a time frame to squeeze it in before 11.1 if they haven’t officially stated anything or have it available on the PTR. Breath definitely isn’t my favorite mechanic, and moving away from it is the way to go imo.
I think someone posted this a few weeks back, it was in the mmo-champion datamined spell changes several weeks ago.
This is literally how BoS works right now. You spend runes to gain RP which increases its duration.
And yes, the biggest issue with these is how they would interact with Runic Empowerment. BoS would give 1 rune guaranteed since you have a 2% chance per RP to gain a rune. The question is what happens after 100% chance to gain a rune. Is it just wasted % because the ability specifies that its “a rune” or do you have the chance to get multiple runes? I dont think we have seen any ability that spends more than like 40RP so nothing has actually gotten over 100% chance to refund a rune. So if you have 120RP and you dump it all with MotFT, does that mean its possible to get 3 runes back? And tou would need Runic Command for Might of the Frozen Throne since it looks like both BoS and MotFT work off of Pillar. If you dont get 3 runes back with MotFT then BoS will be the better option always and whats the point of even changing it?
It might be okay though, i don’t think i saw you mention that breath would go from a 2 minute cooldown to a 45s cooldown which would make it’s uptime way way higher if it was kept exactly the same otherwise.
I don’t think people are understanding the context of my post: Spending Globals on Runic Power doesn’t feel good and even less so if Runic Empowerment doesn’t give you a rune for spending a Global on it. Making Runes inherently better resource than Runic Power.
BoS is like… the only ability that breaks this rule. 2 Minute long Breaths are besides the point. I don’t use it like Voidform. I use it to restore runes and restore runes over time while not using my globals on Frost Strikes. Perhaps this is not the way to use it. But that’s just shows how much I value Runes as a resource.
The fact that they are removing runes on casting it is primary reason I’m not really a fan. But hey, that’s just me!
For instance: Murderous Efficiency and Frigid Executioner. These both give you Runes back for… Spending Runes on Obliterate.
Obliteration makes Howling Blast, Soul Reaper, Frost Strike and Glacial Advance gives a KM proc and a 30% chance to restore a rune. A proc separate from Runic Empowerment if I had to guess that would give you an extra rune. Heck Arctic Assault compress Obliterate and GA into a single global (albeit GA with less effectiveness) and you still gain benefits as if you used GA itself (Unleashed Frenzy, Icy Talons, etc.). This only works if you have PoF active and are using Frost Strike during it to fish for runes… which sounds sad to me.
None of these addresses the issue I personally have with Runic Power as a resource fundamentally. As of why I think spending global on them doesn’t feel very good.
There is Shatter Line though so that’s interesting.
Good question… and a damned good one.
Can’t believe I’m giving you a credit for a critical thinking and understanding my main gripe with this change.
Yeah, probably. I will personally missing it giving Runes on demand without costing a global if this goes live.
I kind of like the way BoS is right now. But I can understand those that don’t.
With the changes you are spending RP via FS or GA (active) inside obliteration DURING the channel, it’s not significantly different and I’d argue better or more impactful than breath passively eating RP to be maintained.
I also think this opens up potential avenues to move dmg around the kit rather than being so overly reliant on obliterate for everthing.
These both sound interesting honestly. There are questions around each as people have pointed out but still worth a look. Hopefully some information if and when we get our patch class details.
i wonder if it would be more beneficial for it to reward spending runic power rather than runes. as then it would still feel like it interacts more with runic power instead of only initially consuming it.
I think the vision here, if these abilities were to be implemented, is to fundamentally shake up how frost interacts with runic power. Specifically they would be doing this to open the way for improvements in the base gameplay around RP.
Right now if you play obliteration RP spending basically feels like hitting a filler spell does for any other class. Meanwhile for breath builds RP is everything during breath, but only for breath. This means there is a whole part of the kit not being used during breath. So as things stand RP spending needs to feel better for obliteration builds, but any improvements would inherently be anti-synergistic with breath builds.
By implementing these abilities, RP is no longer the singular domain of Breath of Sindragosa. This would allow blizz to make the gameplay of spending RP more interesting, improving on the filler spell level lameness it has for obliterate, while not stepping on breaths toes, plus it does all of this while maintaining breath extension based playstyle in what is likely a healthier manner.
If this is in anyway true, I’m glad they’re at least trying to experiment or look for something they can do. It’s definitely not a guarantee that Breath as we know it is dying a well deserved death but thanks to that one person in Blizzard that’s taking the time to try and think of a way to improve it’s gameplay.
Ret was reworked during the first .5 patch in dragonflight right? Or am I misremembering?
I think frost is a mess with how the hero talents interact with non breath rp spenders, it sucks trying to think tank spec developments when blizz has lacked transparency with their intention on hero talents. Like are they here to stay as class fantasy, or just random borrowed power with zero explanation as to why they exist this expansion alone?
I think inexorable assault is wasted fantasy, I’d rather it replace razorice place in shattering blade at least then every x seconds your oblit - > fs combo would have a shatter, razorice and crusader should be merged as a runeforge, bake in some of their passive power and just turn it into an auto attacks now deal frost damage / give strength, the damage taken can be added to the spec passively and the only difference between dw and 2h in terms of runeforge is if you want to play a niche offhand like spellwarding and in turn sacrifice that auto attack being physical.
I’d Be for it, some serious buffs would be needed to Frost Strike / RP spenders in general since Breath is the only one.
I think breath has had it’s time; it’s much too frustrating to play if you get targeted by a mechanic or bad rune reset RNG in the window that can ruin your CD DPS and we’re so reliant on strong breath windows the spec is very weak outside of it, also removing a rotational button is a bit counter intuitive gameplay wise.
