Like the tittle says breaking up spells into a lot of talents is feels very bad. Why should I need to waste 4 points to get my fire blast back to where it is today? Why is there a separate talent point that gives phoenix flames the 3rd charge which we have baseline? Why 3 points to get flurry to do what it does today baseline? Why is 1/3 of my talent points spent on icy veins? Most of these should be a single talent point or 2 or 3 for icy veins tops.
Give us more points and give us new cool talents we can spend them on please
8 Likes
I agree with your point. But then I also look at it from a leveling perspective, it feels nice to make the spells you get feel stronger and get additional effects as you level up.
I think a lot of people are looking at the new talent tree’s expecting everything on them to be new or additions to their current spells which is a bit absurd.
I think the real issue with the talents is the class tree doesn’t make much sense and some of the spec tree’s make you choose between existing spells which is a lot worse than having to spend talents for them.
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not everything has to be a new toy, I agree that it’s ok to have some current skills and passive there for leveling sake; however… the difference between the rogue trees and the mage trees is staggering. Rogues get A LOT of new toys, mages have maybe 1 new talent per spec, and they all seem weak (like shorter Combust)
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It works when ranks are given automatically as you level up but spending 4 points to get what we have on live isn’t good and like said above other classes get to enjoy the new feature while we decide what to give up instead.
Most of these talents feel like filler because the guy responsible for the trees didn’t know what to put there and when you look at other classes like warrior that released this week it just feels extra bad because they are getting very good trees with great options, utility, mobility and damage when we have 4 different talents modifying a single spell to make it usable or a lot of talents that cost 2 or 3 points for a 2% increase or even less
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You’re missing the point that you only have it on live because you’re max level. A new player will have to unlock what you have at max level by spending points which is how it should be.
But the rest of it I agree we need more interesting choices further into the tree and less pruning of current abilities.
And you are missing the point that I’m comparing the mage tree to other classes that don’t have to go through this in their tree so why should we?
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They all do actually. There’s nothing inherently wrong with having different components of a spell be split up.
For Arcane at least it makes sense to split up the Barrage effects. I just wish they swapped the positions of extra targets with the mana one.
Blizz has make it firmly clear the game is mostly about end game, so the trees should reflect as much. Besides, idk about all of you but it feels great to have big power increases with each point rather then some lame +4% crit to ice lance or w.e.
Whoever did the rogue’s trees needs a raise. Seriously. They took the rogue trees and just flourished them into some wonderful trees.
Whoever did mage and hunter trees need fired. Seriously.
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I wouldn’t go so far to say this, but the person responsible for Mage should definitely have a talk with the ones that designed Rogue, Shaman and Warrior. Those 3 trees look amazing and make the people that play the class excited for what’s to come so I wish we could feel the same about the Mage tree as well. Both the class tree and the spec trees.
3 Likes
Yessss, some core abilities that one would think is base for the spec are being locked behind this point system which ultimately does not change the class or spec whatsoever. There are minute changes involved, but nothing really lifechanging or entertaining. I am glad tho they brought back 100% crit on phoenix flames, when they took that out they really broke the reason why I enjoyed rolling fire so much. I see Shadowpreist tree and gosh it looks so fun and interesting at the bottom lol
No one can convince me that things like separating Winter’s Chill from Flurry or Fire Blast’s guaranteed crit is anything but an effort to waste talent points out of pure spite.
Why is it even an option not to take them? To give new mages an opportunity to gimp themselves? Winter’s Chill isn’t even connected to anything else on the tree, so it gives the illusion that it’s like Frostbite and just an optional talent when it’s part of the spec’s basic functionality!
Not to mention the severe point bloat on some of the worst talents I’ve ever seen. 2 points to regain the nerfed 2 seconds on Frost Nova’s duration? 3 points for 1.5 seconds off Blink’s CD? 3 points for 10% increased snare? 3 points for a heal worth 6% of our max HP? 2 points for 3 seconds added to Icy Veins’ duration? These are so horrible that you’d probably never even notice that they were active other than the sudden lack of choices they cause.
5 Likes
Because they do not understand the class identity in the game and want to be lazy with not providing interesting deep class talent abilities. It’s honestly just spending points on micro-differences. Nothing feels like it’s adding to the class identity (if there is one).
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They need to consolidate most of these points that break the talents up into a single one for fire blast and flurry of them a maybe 3 tops for icy veins and then come up with some new and fun stuff for the rest of the trees. not to mention the class tree that has a lot of 2 and 3 point talents that basically do nothing but gatekeep us from what we actually want and even what we actually want pales in comparison to what other classes got
2 Likes
I would love the tree to make mages absolute monster nuke OP
BUT this isnt world or magecraft, and if we go too far the other way and make core abilities just 1 talent point there will need to be SO much more new effects/spells to occupy the remaining spots. There is a happy medium to this that i feel has been achieved with some classes already, namely shaman, rogue, and possibly warrior.
People are getting too worked up about 1/2 talents that give us what we already have, when thematically and progression wise as a new player these make perfect sense. The issue is if the whole tree is made this way.
Nothing wrong with doing it like warrior by bringing back lots of older passives and abilities that was once removed long ago to fill in those spots.
Warriors right now have it good with that, but mage is stuck with a bunch of shadowlands stuff broken up into multiple slots and a couple of things from legion that’s nerfed versions of what they were.
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If you take a look at most other class trees you’ll realize most of us are not asking for anything presumptuous here, but are rather asking for equal treatment.
The “leveling up” argument doesn’t apply to the topic in question unless it affects everybody.
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I’m not arguing that the talents I mentioned should be one point. Flow of Time, Tempest Barrier, Improved Frost Nova, Improved Icy Veins, Diverted Power and Frigid Winds are all complete garbage and don’t belong on the talent tree. They’re all in their weakest possible form to the point that they’re imperceptible and purely exist as point sponges.
I actually consider Cryo-Freeze to be a relatively good talent because it’s extremely impactful. The only problem I have with it is that it’s in such an awkward spot on the tree that no one thinks of taking it.
It really doesn’t matter if you’re looking at it from a levelling perspective or not. If I spend a talent point on something simply because I have to in order to get to a talent I want and what I get in exchange doesn’t change my character at all, then it’s a total waste and feels terrible.
In a game where we’ve had over a dozen tier sets, Artifact Powers, Azerite Powers and Anima Powers from Tor’ghast that created interesting and unique gameplay differences, they chose to dump every ilvl 145 endurance and finesse conduit into our class tree and make them unreasonably expensive, slicing them into such thin slices that they’re almost entirely air.
I think [Fire Blast] should be 1 point for making it auto crit + casting while casting and [Flame On] should be 1 point for 2 extra charges + reduced recharge rate.
[Flurry] should be 1 point for the ability itself + [Winter’s Chill] and another 1 point for [Brain Freeze] + 1 extra charge.
[Icy Veins] should get 3 or 4 points tops.
Breaking stuff down just to fill up the tree instead of coming up with new talents is lazy and bad for the class/spec.
2 Likes
The over abundance of three point talents also need removing. The over abundance of tank talents need reworking.
Three point talents in general feel awful and should be reserved for extremely potent situations like alacrity. They should be sparse because they prevent truly customizing a build.
Mages fantasy is being a squishy wizard that does big ol’ hits. Be it in m+, raiding, or arena, what made mage fun at its best was using your control and mobility to get off casts knowing that if the enemy got significant uptime, you were in for major trouble. These tank talents are the opposite of that fantasy. They make you extremely durable and because the rest of mage talents are temporary modifiers you stack up, instead of being a highly threatening but quickly murdered target, you are threatening only every couple minutes and elsewise are more beefy than plate dps.
3 Likes
I agree. I think that 3-point talents have a place, but they have to be impactful enough and useful. I think the best example of a talent ruined by the prohibitive cost is Cryo-Freeze.
Having nearly a full heal on Ice Block is nice, but it shares a branch with Reabsorption which is one point. They’re both niche, but one wastes two points more than could be used on the capstones, so no one is going to take Cryo-Freeze over Reabsorption even if Cryo-Freeze is better. We’re digging through junk to find pennies in the mage class tree.
Not to mention the absolute trash that is everything below the 20-point line. Really? Three straight lines down with no branches? It reeks of “we slapped this together at the last minute”.
1 Like