Bots, Misconceptions, and the infinite treadmill

Bots. Hate em or hate em, they’re everywhere, and probably will always exist in some capacity in any game (even if you don’t see them). And while developers do much in order to deter or diminish their effect on the game, it’s a never-ending, uphill battle. But there’s a lot of misconceptions or illogical information floating around about bots and why they seem to never stop. Here’s some of the common ones and why they aren’t true or simply don’t make sense.

Blizzard only bans bots in waves / Blizzard isn't banning bots because they're still there

Let’s talk a bit about how Blizzard handles bans. First off, yes, bots that are found do seem to not get banned immediately, but are at least flagged and banned a short while later. The main reason for this is banning a bot as soon as it’s confirmed gives an idea back to the bot owner as to what the bot did that set it off, and then they can adjust accordingly. A bot that adapts is a bot thats harder to find.

As for why bots are still there or never seem to leave (even when the bans do go out), I did some research and it didn’t take long to find a Battle.net account generator. After being banned, it takes barely any time at all for a bot owner to spin up hundreds of new accounts, ready to bot.

Blizzard doesn't ban bots because they're making money from them!

I see where people are coming from with this one, but in a thread discussing this on the SoD forums, it simply doesn’t make sense. Let’s assume for a moment that Blizzard is, in fact, making money from bots. It would then still make sense for Blizzard to ban bots as soon as possible, because then the bots would come back with a new account with a fresh sub. But clearly thats not the case, and there’s more. A bot owner is trying to maximize profits, but there’s always the chance that the bots get banned before they can farm or sell too much. So, they find ways around having to pay at all.

The most likely methods are:

  1. Stealing legitimate accounts and botting on them
  2. Stealing credit cards
  3. Actually subbing for real but once they get banned, doing a chargeback (which does get your Blizzard account banned, but I don’t think that matters…)

So clearly, Blizzard making money from bots seems a little silly now.

Now, lets cover some “solutions” I’ve seen floating around, and why they’re not ideal, and how the “treadmill” relates to all this.

Bots are so obvious, Blizzard just needs a couple GMs to float around in BGs to ban them all!

There’s a few problems here. First off, Blizzard really dislikes the “looks like a bot” argument, because there are players that do somehow act goofy or derpy enough that people call bot on them. Actually, players will really call bot on any player doing anything remotely out of the ordinary (I got called a bot in TBC for farming Mageweave Cloth from low level ogres… There just wasn’t any on the AH, man!) Blizzard prefers something more concrete, and less circumstantial. But let’s say they did plop a GM or two into BGs to ban bots. Congrats, they’ve banned a bunch of bots, but this is very, very short-term. Bots will always be back, and if doing BGs gets them banned, they’ll just move elsewhere where they won’t be noticed.

This also brings up an issue called the “treadmill problem.” The treadmill problem basically refers to a task that doesn’t end, and therefore occupies someone infinitely because it has endless upkeep. Assuming the bots decided to not move and kept on doing BGs, someone is now doomed to sitting around, banning bots, in the same fashion, forever. Companies don’t like the treadmill problem because it’s a waste of time and resources that could be spent elsewhere, and ultimately, since bots will most definitely just move elsewhere, having someone sit around and just ban bots is not a long-term solution.

There’s one more thing to note before moving from the “bots in BGs” discussion. These bots are most definitely getting the gold to sell by farming honor, buying gems, and then selling them. However, this is probably better than chasing them off into the open-world or instance farming. In the case of honor farming, they don’t actually generate gold, only gems, and then they’re moving around other people’s gold instead of gold they farmed. It doesn’t actually cause inflation because they aren’t increasing the gold in circulation. The effects are less severe than if the bots were forced to farm old instances for raw gold or something.

Instead of banning bots, Blizzard should make them unable to trade or use the AH, or secretly move them to a different, identical-looking server

Back to the treadmill problem, Blizzard could spend the time and resources doing this, but as stated before, bots adapt. The moment this update rolls out and botters start noticing that they’re effectively being shadow banned, they’ll just have the bots occasionally check that they can still use the AH, or make a way to detect if the “server” they’re on is different than before, and then all that time Blizzard spent? Pointless.

This is the problem with “solutions” to botting. They’re simply not viable. There isn’t a long-term solution that doesn’t affect players, will never have false positives, and won’t be overcome by botters in no time at all.

And for my last point…

Ban the buyers and botting will stop!

My question to you, is how do you know the buyers aren’t being banned? Very few will ever admit to buying gold (In fact, you’re probably more likely to get legitimate players saying they bought gold, sarcastically), and those that do are not going to have a favorable mentality towards Blizzard. If they get banned, do you think they would admit to it? No, they’d probably just pass it off as if nothing happened.

And since I know someone is thinking of it, what about Sodapoppin? I can’t speak personally for Blizzard, but it’s not uncommon for games to make your first punishment more lenient if you’ve been a good player for a very long time. It’s not like he wasn’t punished at all, he did still lose his gold and items, and he was basically forced to be public about it.

I’m certain the regular trolls here will come and complain, finding any small detail to have issue with, or just refuse to acknowledge points that make sense. But to those that do play this game, think a little. Blizzard is trying, but there are limits to realistic solutions.

And with that, I will take my leave.

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Bots will always be an issue the only thing you can do is report and move on, hopefully they get banned soon.

OP, be prepared to be called a liar and shill and be met with only anecdotal evidence and that one video of some botting office that has been circulating around. Throw in “STREAMER was mass reported” “blizz didnt punish STREAMER when they did X” comments to taste.

Good write up, seems mostly legit from what I have seen said by CS reps and other blues.

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“How to be the biggest sycophant, 101” Only thing missing is, “you don’t know they’re actually bots.”
:axe:

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Blizzard should ban the buyers, not the bots.

Bot control is a never ending arms race. But without buyers you have no bots.

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If Blizzard had been way harsher with punishments for buying gold, we wouldn’t be having this issue of bots or GDKPs but yet here we are since Blizzard refuses to take appropriate action.

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They tend to not perma-ban gold buyers, only give them a maximum of 6 months because they think that’ll stop them from buying again not even knowing if they have another account or not.

They def can do better then they do.

Generally stockades is completely full of mages.(SoD)

Strat on Classic Era was full for a year with mages and hunters in Dire Maul.

There is a difference between limits and not caring. It takes time to get to Strat/Dire Maul. Yet they just waited till they moved to SoD instead of dealing with the issue.

And in Wotlk they were always fly hacking in Black Temple.

All I can say is, this will be the very last chance they have for me. Haven’t played retail since Cata because of this. Wouldn’t of even got Dragonflight if I didn’t it as a gift and blizzard giving us Shadowlands for free.

Didn’t even cap though.

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Hey, pretty cool post! Thanks for sharing. I liked reading about your ideas and perspectives on these topics.

Most of what you say sounds like you’ve probably had some well reasoned thought experiments through the various scenarios and came to some realizations that seem, well… quite reasonable!

I mean, the example of the gold buyer getting banned, seeing Blizz in a favorable light, and only hearing non-gold buyers sarcastically admit to gold buying seems like a very subjective opinion that doesn’t particularly seem to fit with the rest of the well thought-out ideas in the post, in my opinion. And I am only nit-picking to highlight the type of detail someone might have issue with.

I think there are some other sides to this that we haven’t particularly discussed, and that’s that as you increase the resources towards preventing bots, this can potentially have the effect of increasing the cost of gold or other services temporarily, and then the bots become more sophisticated, harder to deal with, etc. while the resources to combat them continue to increase in maintenance or development costs.

So, there’s likely some sort of sweet-spots where Blizzard is keeping the bots at bay to the extent that they impact legitimate play as little as possible while at the same time being relatively lenient towards those who are funding the bot tech, and that may simply be because increases in bot-detection/crackdown could just lead to more sophisticated bots, more costs to combat them, and more disruption to the legitimate player.


Anyway cool post, thanks for sharing!

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No, many bots are not banned a “short while later.” Many bots are seen over and over for weeks in BGs. Go play some.

While players should be able to report bots, it should not solely be the job of the customers to discover bots. That is Blizzard’s responsibility. Many players have given up reporting them. Not only because they believe it’s futile but because Blizzard has even made reporting them more convoluted than it should be. There should be a right click function. Period.

Imagine going through that process to report all these bots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Figo46xCT84

Blizzard needs to have GMs monitoring the game. They need to be watching starting areas and BGs.

And Blizzard should be there, ready for that.

A drunk mentally challenged cat can identify the majority of bots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9ltxvVQrMU&t=13s

That being said, shouldn’t that be MORE reason for GMs to actually be in the game?

I just think that also…

In this AI emerging world, WOW is a great sandbox for bot developers to test out new things.
I would assume that bots will soon take out bots somehow to help automate the process and remove the burden of the “treadmill” on a GM

and
(curveball)
Residents of monetarily poorer countries have found a way to capitalize on a niche market by selling gold.

At some point a while back I just accepted the BOTS for what they are, and a little respect to the constantly evolving element of it. Its been a tit for tat thing that never goes away. This game is still going 20 years in, and even robots are playing.

For the Future of bots…
A robot that is capable of visual interpretation of the game through ccd/video sensors and able to play the game on a keyboard and mouse. The “bot” will be an actual robot.

:robot:

This is one of those things I’d have to call doubt on, if bots could fly hack, would they not be doing it in BGs to end them extremely quickly for honor? I feel many videos acting as “evidence” of fly hacking are probably recorded on private servers and are only made to stir the hornets nest.

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Not private servers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boki8Ba85lo&t=2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31vSIMeBHs8&t=7s

I mean it would of taken less time checking Youtube.

There just isn’t as many last time as I checked because most the bots on SoD.

There’s even a video with a priest mind visioning it.

Enjoy.

They also already have on SoD XD There was a few videos on Shadowfang Keep.

That BC one is old, but the SoD one is interesting.

You know, I heard a rumor that Warden used to boot people that were dragonriding in Retail, because the movements you can do with it are very extreme. And then it stopped. I wonder if due to the shared client, that inadvertently allowed this to no longer get auto-detected.

As for Black Temple, Blizzard shut down the instance briefly a while back and then I stopped hearing people talk about bots running in there. I assume they just made the trash immortal if the boss required to get to them wasn’t killed.

Nah they kept coming back until SoD came or not even banned, really hard to tell without writing all the names down.

I would know considering the very first thing I did logging in Wotlk was /who Black Temple. Then Alt F4.

There ain’t no way dragon flying made them turn it off. Its been a thing since CLASSIC ph2.

I mean, thats what people want. I think on people’s list of annoying bots, bots farming elemental motes in the open world is pretty low while bots doing content that requires teamwork is very bad. So if they have to insta ban any bot that enters a BG, then that’s a fight worth having. And if the bots increase in skill enough to be competent in team play, well then that’s just a win-win

I don’t know how a bot adapts to this. If your battle.net account was created in 2024, you don’t get to trade and you can at most buy/sell 100g worth of stuff on the AH per day. The only problem is how to unflag legitimate accounts from the restriction. Is it play time? Is it a 6-month grace period? Do they have to call in to customer support and get unflagged? Do they need a real player to vouch for them? Who knows.

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Re-reading it, it seems like the point of that bit is that there’s not a reliable source to confirm that gold buyers do or don’t get banned. Taking what a gold buyer says at face value would be very suspect, and even then how do you know they actually bought gold or are just pulling your leg? I think that’s the point, personally.

They were probably more referring to the people who come and say “no, you’re wrong” or throw insults instead of saying anything of value. Not necessarily people who simply don’t agree.

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OP’s idea seemed to be that if you get flagged as a bot, you THEN get restrictions applied to you. Which would just cause bots to constantly check if the restriction has been applied, and treat it as a ban if it was.

Applying it to new accounts is a novel idea, but yeah, unflagging it is the issue. If you tie it to content like “Do X Dungeons or Do 1 Raid,” then bots would invade those spaces as well.

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I think you are correctly describing part of the market, but not the whole market. If you look at some of the research around RMT, like MetaGoblin’s stuff, yes, there are certainly some underground actors as you describe.

But there are also “legitimate” firms working in this space. They may be illegitimate within the in-game context, but IRL they are a functional business, filing taxes, etc. In terms of the numbers, they are using data analysis to make profit. So yes, you will lose money on a few while still making money in the net, the same as you do trading stocks or nearly any other business.

But more importantly, actors in this share of the RMT market almost certainly can’t function by stealing credit cards or constantly doing chargebacks since while individual wow accounts are disposable, they need to maintain a business relationship with their credit supplier.

And as much as they don’t worry about WoW jail, they do have reasons to be avoid things that involve real jail. It’s a business.

It also sounds like the profits have been high enough that one can make the cost of a sub in just a few days, even after accounting for other expenses.