BM Monk Takes the most damage of all tanks. I can prove it with math

Classes Monk
1

First off passives.
The most noticeable (though maybe not the most impactful) is Armor. The other tanks have enough armor to passively mitigate 50% + of all physical damage. The other tanks have abilities that stack on top of this but passively doing nothing its 50%+.
Monk is half of that sitting around 22 to 25%.

Dodge is next, this is one of our primary damage mitigations. We passively have less than druid by 4 to 6 %. Mastery helps with this. But not everything can be dodged and the way stat priority works this season no one is stacking mastery because vers is better overall and crit is needed to hold aggro. Not every tank really has access to dodge. This does not make monk pull ahead as a lot of this season’s major attacks cannot be dodged.

Parry
We get 3% Parry and unlike other tanks our stats cannot stack parry.

Block
No Block

Versatility
This can and should be stacked and is even with what it does for other tanks.

Lastly Stagger
Other tanks do not have Stagger but when compared to ignore pain, sheild block, or even Iron Fur it lags behind. It does have some advantages but needs to be buffed.
Based on agility you get to stagger A variable amount of Damage. At 620, its around 40% of incoming physical Damage and magic damage is around 58% of that 40%. but it is not a true mitigation. It is an extra dot that you spend the entire fight trying to clear, every other tank just mitigates that same damage at a higher rate and just doesn’t take any of it. BM monk will instead take at least some of it. even in a perfect world where we can keep the stagger bar mostly clear, we are taking at least 1/20 to 1/2 of that damage. The Healing we have helps with this a lot, but other tanks have healing and do not have to take that same damage. So once again we arrive at the simple fact that Monk’s take the most damage of all the tanks.

I think the simplest way to fix this is making our passive armor on par with the other tanks and give us access to parry based on crit like warriors have. While also not nerfing anything else in the process. But that is my opinion. Please feel free to share yours.

Thank You for Reading!
Happy Thanksgiving

2

Our durability isn’t defined by a single factor like damage taken. If you want to generalize you can look at brewmaster as functioning as follows…

  1. General damage reduction via stagger, purification and increased dodge.
  2. Healing in two forms. Consistent heals as part of our rotation and the more important healing that scales as we take more damage.
  3. Defensive CDs we can use reactively/proactively.
  4. Caveat type mechanics that provide defensive benefits targeted to specific scenarios (ox stance, Elixir of Determination, etc).

It is how all these parts interact that determines our durability.

To make a point; you could double the amount of damage we take but if you also Octuple (x8) current heal scaling we would be more durability then we are now until things start one shotting us and then perhaps you would have people coming to this forum calling for HP buffs when really the problem would be how all these parts interact!

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3

Brewmaster has always taken more damage than other tanks. Nothing new there…

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Sorry I just reread my post and realized it came off as quite hostile :grimacing:. This was not my intention.

I think we would all like to see some improvements for the spec, i was just trying to illustrate damage taken is one part of a bigger equation.

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Yeah, I realized that after reading some of your other posts. That is why I deleted my reply post. Even if you were in disagreement with me, your opinion is just as valued as everyone else’s. Also, what a POS I would look like asking people to share their opinions and then taking down to them when they do. If I am Right or wrong that is not okay. Pretty sure we are all on the same side in this one. BM monk needs more Damage Mitigation. Hope we get in in the Christmas patch, but I am not holding my breath.

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A tank’s job isn’t to take no damage it is to be easy to heal. Now if you take no damage you’re very easy to heal but no tank truly takes no damage. And if you die you’re impossible to heal.

That being said I would love to see BrM shift to focus more on stagger and less on self healing. I’d love to see stagger % and duration buffed.

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Your math on stagger is wrong.

The actual calculation is a % from a calculation.

From Peak of Serenity

As of Patch 11.0.5 (The War Within Season 1 ), Stagger’s percentage and Armor’s damage reduction percentage are calculated as

(Base/(Base+K)) * 100 = Percentage

where K is a value that depends on the content you are doing. Blizzard relies on different values of K over time to tune content for tanks, and its values can be found in a separate pin (⁠theory-of-brewing⁠) For Stagger, “Base” represents your baseline Stagger amount (WHICH IS NOT THE CHARACTER SHEET PERCENTAGE ), and is calculated as

1.13 * <Agility> * <modifiers> = Base

Modifiers represent our talents and abilities that interact with Stagger. As of Patch 11.0.5 (The War Within Season 1 ), our modifiers work as such:

If High Tolerance is talented, multiply by 1.1 for rank 1, or 1.20 for rank 2.

If Shuffle is active, multiply by 3.43.

If Fortifying Brew: Determination is talented and active, multiply by 1.5

If Ox Stance is talented and a stack is consumed, multiply by 1.4

When more than one modifier is present, just keep multiplying.

On my 632 Brewmaster, I usually sit around 54,000 agility with Ara-Kara trinket and procs bringing it to an average of 60,000 Agility. I also run Ox Stance and 2 points of High Tolerance.

Without Ox Stance procs, and assuming 100% shuffle uptime (which you should), I mitigate 71.7% of damage in M+/M0 instances. With Ox Stance procs, it goes up to 78.04% of damage in M+/M0.

K Values are the following:

Level 80 Season 1 M0/M+: 109,899.997711 
Nerub-ar Palace LFR: 100,000.000000
Nerub-ar Palace Normal: 106,599.998474 
Nerub-ar Palace Heroic: 113,900.005817 
Nerub-ar Palace Mythic: 122,300.004959 
Nerub-ar Palace Story Mode: 106,599.998474
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BrM has always taken the most damage. That’s nothing new. The tradeoff is that BrM is supposed to smooth the damage intake so it’s easy to heal. Right now things are a little more spiky than what is comfortable.

My complaint right now is AoE threat. Shouldn’t need statue taunt after keg smash and SCK. Just feels bad.

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With 30% crit you automatically take 21% more healing. So that evens out if you take 21% more damage.

Orbs proc for each X dmg we take (X being our base health I’m 85% sure), last time I did rough napkin math on it I came up with orbs being effectively ~18% damage reduction (without expel harm boosting and before celestial fortune procs). Also purifies 5% stagger.

At a minimum you should be purifying around half of your stagger id say. So assuming that’s the case 72% phys stagger would be more like us taking 58% of total physical dmg. And healing for 25% of that (before celestial fortune procs), which would be roughly 3.5% of the incoming dmg, so down to 54.5% real dmg intake.

Then in niche situations of massive DMG you can consider the power of chain freezing stagger. Where you freeze stagger thats sitting at 150-200% of your max health. Then purify freeze again and your gai plin healing turns into a death strike heal. You can become immortal as long as you aren’t dying outright from unstaggered dmg.

I compared logs of top tanks of different specs to see if these rumors were true and they weren’t really. Bear druid dmg intake was surprisingly high and very close to monks, they also just massive heal through it. Their mastery is very similar.

Blood dks also take massive DMG.

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You’re using taunt wrong if you’re using it AFTER AOE dmg.

The 3s taunt debuff gives you x6 more threat. So as you pull a pack immediately AOE taunt and then try to blast dmg in those 3 seconds and never worry about losing aggro anymore

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You’d never want to freeze your stagger, it’s much more efficient to either BoF for the 5% or KS for the CDR on purifying brew.

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Lol if I did that on some pulls instead of freezing I would’ve died. So hard disagree

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Unless your stagger is ticking for 900k+ I can’t imagine freezing is the better option. Only time I’ve hit 900k is during GB12 runs versus enforcers and flame benders, and even then it’s better to keg smash to get more purifies out than to freeze stagger.

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I am Aware that my explanation was an oversimplification but thank you for your input. My only carveout to that explanation is it is a best-case scenario. All that up at the same time is very much a minority of the time. My dumbed down explanation was meant to explain the baseline. This is because procs and active skill use is not dependable data as it is subject to user error and bad RNG. My estimations were meant to explain baseline damage Mit. Your post is misleading and is not what Peak of Serenity was trying to explain. What Peak of Serenity posted there is the overall calculation, and your post takes that out of context in this line of discussion because what you typed misrepresents the data for what would be (this is a guess based on personal experience and no data so feel free to trash me for it) like 10 to 20% of a dungeon and less on a raid bosses. When looked at through the filter I established in my explanation nothing I said was too far off.

Thank you for sharing that! Now I can do more nerd math.
I hope this does not come off too odious, I did not mean it that way.

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Part of the reason mastery isn’t stacked is because Training of Niuzao offers a large passive boost to it. You’re almost always at max value in higher keys in pulls where dodging matters, and if you factor a 10% average onto the average stat weights of higher pushing Brewmasters, it ends up around 20% mastery. ~20% added dodge that grants a stack every time you fail to dodge or an immediate ~60% added dodge when BoK hits 3 enemies is incredibly massive. We’re dodging quite a bit. You can see how many dodges you’ve done in logs. It’s significant. Bleeding into the parry equation, we do not stack parry because of how much dodge we end up with. To my knowledge, and I may have been fed false information here, but parry and dodge are additive to one another. It’d be busted if we had anymore than the 3% baseline we’re offered. Furthermore, you state “unlike other tanks” our stats cannot stack parry, but Guardian is unable to stack parry at all. I believe they lack even the 3% we’re offered. Not to mention only 2/6 tanks have any block chance at all.

As Alletrat pointed out, durability isn’t exclusively defined by damage taken. I do believe the spec needs a bit of help, but IMO it’s primarily in needing scaling in AoE, as well as some minor buffs to core abilities (like CB/Elixir of Determination) and some talent tree reworks. Maybe a minor damage buff (or reeling in ppal) and/or some unique Brewmaster utility as well.

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Yeah I feel ya. A lot of times I’m just finding it on CD while chain pulling and then it’s just a cycle of fighting threat back from the pumpers when the CD doesn’t line up well. But it’s really only an issue when using the cookie cutter M+ build; switching talents around makes it way less of an issue.

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Maybe look to add a healing component to purifying brew as well.

For example. . .

Purifying grants player choice of selecting two types of heals off the follow up ability selected.

RSK or BoK - Single Target Heal
Crane - Heal over time