Are blood DKs really that much stronger and better? Im trying to go for the +15achiev and beyond and was wondering what advantages over monks that dks have in tanking that could make runs easier.
They’re both great in different assets of the game. I wouldn’t definitively say one is better than the other considering the top 2 Mythic+ tanks in the world are both Monk/DK. The current highest scored mythic + was finished by a BM to put in perspective.
It just comes down to your flavor. What do you prefer? I personally love the mobility, kiting and smooth damage control I have with my BM. I never was a fan of having to rely on my own self heals, personally.
For BrM and BDK, I think it comes down to gameplay style. As Jett mentioned, BrM has mobility, kiting, and smooth damage control. BDK has a plethora of CC options, armor based upon strength, proactive damage mitigation that requires minimal upkeep, decent defensive CDs, a BRez, and several other conditional talents and abilities. I enjoy playing B DK because I can adjust the class as needed per the encounter.
The clearest difference between BrM and B DK, that I’ve discovered personally, is the learning curve. B DK didn’t take long to learn, although i’m still in the process of mastering it. BrM on the other hand, i’m still learning, and may very well never master the spec. Each player has a particular tanking style that they prefer/enjoy. For years mine was Prot Pally. Early on in BfA, I switched to V DH. Now i’m back to my B DK, and it just feels right.
Just a warning, super long post ahead.
Personally I disagree. Are Monks solid tanks that have their advantages? Of course they are, and there isn’t really much that would stop you from pushing those levels of keys on a Monk. However The top Monk tank is far from representative of the class’ strength as a whole in M+. I’d argue it speaks more for him as a player than the strength of his class.
What is representative of the strength of a class? The fact that 77 of the top 100 tanks in M+ are DKs, and that only 2 of the top 10 are non-DKs.
If you’re going for your +15 achieve and have both options available I’d play Blood DK. Especially if you’re pugging, due to the community’s perception that Blood DK is the only tank worth playing.
As for why, and what makes them “better”? It mostly comes down to utility and self-sustainability.
The main problem I find with Brewmaster in M+ is that while yes, their damage intake is probably the smoothest of all tanks due to Stagger, that they always require external healing. You basically always need attention from your healer. Certain affix combos only serve to exacerbate this, such as Grievous and Necrotic.
That is not an issue Blood DKs have. DKs will tend to be “spikier” in their damage intake and take more damage overall, but they make up for it with their self healing. You generally don’t need nearly as much attention from a healer as a DK as you do other tank classes, which allows that healer’s attention to be spent elsewhere on the group. And if their healing alone isn’t enough that have a cooldown for almost every situation. Something that Brewmaster lacks due to all the passive damage reduction they have due to stagger.
Then there’s the utility. DKs offer an undead mind-control, a single-target stun, aoe slows if talented into, a combat rez, and most importantly Death Grip and Gorefiend’s Grasp, arguably the best utilities in the game for dungeon content.
By comparison Monk doesn’t offer much in terms of unique useful group utility. They also have aoe slows, though theirs are baseline, a long-term incapacitate, a fair amount of mobility via roll and transcendence, an aoe stun if talented into, and Ring of Peace if talented into, an ability that could also be considered one of the best utilities in the game for dungeon content.
The main problem is that none of the utility Brewmaster has is unique to them like Gorefiend’s is to Blood DK. Incaps, aoe slows, and aoe stuns are all brought by many classes, and RoP is available to all specs of monk, not just Brewmaster. Whereas Gorefiend’s is completely unique to Blood DK.
Mobility also isn’t all its cracked up to be in M+. In M+ you only move as fast as your slowest party member. And while high mobility classes may have an edge when kitting, they also have an edge in out-ranging their healers. Personally I’ve just never been in a situation where I had an issue kitting as Blood as long as the group had slows and AoE stuns available.
Monk is fine, overall however. If you want to push to +15 on Monk there’s nothing stopping you. But I feel that DK just has it easier and better and is more valuable to the group overall due to its kit being so perfectly tailored towards dungeon content.
TL:DR Blood DK makes up the overwhelming majority of tanks doing high level keys for a reason. Their self-healing generally makes them more valuable in dungeon content than classes that require constant attention like Monks do, and they offer more valuable utility overall, while offering utility unique to them that is arguably the best in the game for dungeon content.
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I always thought monks were better until I actually observed one in combat. That’s when I realized that all damage they take outside of their brews just keeps getting higher and higher until they have this nasty dot on themselves. and then when theyre soloing content or pvping they have to actually stop fighting to cast vivify or whatever. That is when I knew I made the right choice because I never ever have to stop fighting to heal myself. Saw one fighting this pally and they had to roll away and cc and cast vivify to even have a chance. Meanwhile I just keep smacking anyone to get my health back. in solo combat they are actually not too great.
Thank you, this is the specific detail i was looking for. Im not sure if ill love it long term but to get the +15 key is my priority right now. So i can unlock the artifact achievement appearance. I boosted a dk thanks to this so thank you. Time to give it a shot
Well stated. This definitely confirmed that I made the correct choice choosing my B DK. I already understood that BrMs in high m+ were rare, but not much more than any other tank class in high m+ rankings besides B DK. Instead, they make up for that being the tank of choice for mythic progression raiding. The trade off is fine, but I find that I spend more of my week pushing dungeons than I do raiding. Raiding is generally a 2-3 day event while m+ can be done anytime/anywhere.
That means that B DK can push m+ for gear, and bring that gear into mythic progression as an off-tank (although i’m sure they’ll perform fine as a main tank, as long as its not the first couple weeks of mythic progression on a new raid).
A final note, although this could just be based upon my own unique experience with the B DK, is the ease at which I learned how to play my B DK. I’ve heard that running a BrM through dungeons at lower levels can be a painful experience due to the lack of QoL abilities that don’t get unlock till latter levels. The B DK doesn’t experience this as much because a decent portion of abilities are unlock as they leave their starting scenario. The learning curve at that point might be a tad bit steep but its a great way for new B DKs to break their teeth on what their class is capable of. Yes, i’ve had groups wipe in Hellfire Citadel due to that learning curve but I believe its essential to the success of a B DK. I found BrM tanking took a bit more to understand all the parts in motion that make them tick and not die. For B DK the understanding was simple, the execution quite linear, but the mastery is still a learning process for me. Having come from a background of being a Ret/Prot Pally for 90% of WoW’s expansions, the B DK was and is a breath of fresh air.
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Gorefiends grasp + bonestorm = gg in mythic+