The thread had been up almost an hour and was falling off the front page when I did, I suppose I just could have not commented at all to bump it and then nobody would have seen it. The original poster appreciated the bump.
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Signed. They did finally get around to addressing shadow priests so I’m hopeful WW/MW are on their radar as well.
You say monk lives matter, they respond all lives matter.
I agree though, fix monk
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Please fix Monks.
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I was hoping to main Monk in SL, but it’s looking increasingly like it’ll be my DK, or Warrior, or Pally, or DH.
I almost added Druid to that list, but nope.
Monks go zoom, shoosh, dodge.
because it was posted in GD.
…this isn’t the monk forum.
standard.
which makes it even more facepalm, when they claim that blizzard isn’t listening to them.
“but i told my facebook friends a thing, and blizzard didn’t listen!!”
“i shouted at a cloud, and then told the cloud to go fly over irvine!”
Feral druid: First time?
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Thank you all for such impassioned responses. Here’s hoping blizzard can fix monks.
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IDK how many threads have been made on the topic of Blizzard ignoring monks. Literally our entire monk class forum area is full of posts. Our Monk-beta forum is full of feedback and questions as to why Blizzard can’t give feedback. Multiple threads made in the general forums on this topic which 1 of them has over 400+ replies.
If Blizzard doesn’t know by now…I don’t even know what to say. Its getting pathetic at this point.
Also we get these Massive Sweeping nerfs last Wed for no reason. BRM was nerfed which was fine(whatever). WW/MW had no biz being nerfed. Chi-Ji wasn’t even close to be OP.
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Please acknowledge monk feedback. Please respond to monk feedback. Please don’t leave us in the dark.
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Don’t lose hope, I believe if we’re persistent enough we’ll eventually get the developer attention our class needs.
You know, it seems there has always been multiple Classes or speCs left and hung out to dry. Some not touched for half of an expansion exCept for some minor Cursory adjustments and hotfixed. Warriors, Shaman, and DK come to mind with the lack of communication and radio silence with Blue posts. IDK why this is… time crunch maybe?
So Kyuju, what works for me is not going down the rabbit hole thinking that (in this situation) the Monk community is being singled out, or forgotten. Keeping my fingers crossed for you folks. Peace out.
Let’s not forget that 2 of the covenant abilities work poorly with the way WW is designed. The other two gutted when you use SEF, which happens far to much at this point.
- Kyrian - Gives a ton of mastery and resets the CD of an ability… that you shouldn’t use for several GCDs because of the mastery (and the fact the ability itself has a 1.5s GCD on a class with a 1s GCD). Making the whole reset mechanic almost non-existent because it’s already an incredibly low cooldown ability that would’ve had a significant portion of it’s cooldown reduced by the time you do use it. Not to mention the ability itself makes you ignore mastery in the first place by spamming Blackout Kick making the mastery gain from it fairly pointless to begin with. Like what is the point of the ability at that point. It’s not like RSK -> WoO -> RSK is a thing you would ever do.
- Fae - Provides us resource orbs, problems with playing pacman in encounters aside… WW doesn’t handle excess resources well enough to even use them reliably, it’s either a dead mechanic because the resources are practically worthless, or a hindrance if you get enough due to the spec not being built around expending large sums of it in a reasonable and efficient manner. Unlike Brewmaster and Mistweaver who get more or less immediate value out of the ability, Windwalker has to grab orbs for resources they don’t really even need… and even if we did need them having to run around collecting things when BrM can just absorb orbs with another ability, and havoc’s soul mechanic being significantly more forgiving in regards to just having to be near them… it feels dated and more of a hassle.
Weirdly inconsistent behavior
- Why is it that Fists of Fury has a 6 target cap, but also does reduced damage to secondary targets. Like why double down on trying to tone down it’s cleave damage. On that note…
- Why does MoTC even exist at this point, and why does it cap out at 5 targets when SCK is capped out at 6 targets.
- Nobody knows if this is intended… but the ability to /cancelaura roll or chi torpedo has gone away recently on the beta & PTR.
A few basic concerns
- Concerned 2h WW might be dead on arrival because you miss a 2nd weapon enchant with nothing seemingly in place to balance between the two. Just seems like lip-service at this point. Not to mention how we tend to miss a lot of AA swings because of the plethora of channeled spells we have, we already see cases where we have less swings and damage than a 2h tank spec while using 2 faster weapons, having a 2h ourselves only worsens that.
- Tiger Strikes (MoP Version) was a passive that helped address the autoattack problem but hasn’t been seen in any capacity since legion removed it. Something like Way of the Monk, another passive we used to have could’ve been done to better balance between the two when it comes to missing enchants, but again legion removed it.
- RSK randomly lost 70% damage.
Honestly looking back at it, a huge number of problems that the spec suffers from can be attributed to decisions made in legion. Of everything, in my opinion some of the few recent good core things they’ve done to the spec is:
- Put the cooldown reduction mechanic on Blackout Kick in BFA… which has still caused problems on occasion.
- Xuen being baseline, except that his version of the Galeburst effect in Empowered Tiger Lightning doesn’t have any of the bandaid SEF fixes in place so… that just opened up a whole can of worms which brings me to the next point…
SEF… oh SEF…
Storm, Earth, and Fire has just been a continued problem for 4 years and with how it seems like shadowlands related content (among some core things too) in the beta doesn’t seem to like it either, it’s looking to be another 2 years. Seriously, if this was any other class that had to deal with a cooldown being this much of a problem for this long you know they would’ve gotten around to it.
It’s so bad right now that most of the new features of the expansion don’t work with the ability. Very few things actually play nicely with the CD, and things like Covenants being a key feature not being one of them is just rehashing problems that occur seemingly every patch. Can’t imagine most of Torghast like SEF either.
- SEF really just needs to be completely reworked from the ground up (or removed), it has so many layers of bandaids holding the foundation together that continuing to go that route is just insanity.
Degenerate gameplay
Touch of Karma is an interesting defensive, so interesting it’s not even really a defensive. Back during the BFA AMA thread Ion called this degenerate gameplay, standing in raid mechanics with a defensive to do damage.
Something they’re only reinforcing going forward with things like Fortifying Brew returning (which on it’s own is actually a great thing). Bad because it’ll just get used along-side ToK just to pump out even more damage.
Talents
Spiritual Focus and RJW are the true jokes, EE just needs GCD love.
- First problematic talent is Energizing Elixir, back before the launch of BFA things like Tiger’s Fury and Symbols of Death were put on, then taken off the GCD. Energizing Elixir was one of these things put on the GCD at the time and never taken off, never been used since it was placed on the GCD, and will likely never see use unless it’s taken off the GCD. It has nothing to due with being the weakest option, theoretically it’s the strongest talent, and it still never gets used.
- Rushing Jade Wind, for WW nothing feels more like gouging your eyes out like playing with this ability. The problem with it’s current iteration is that the maintenance cost of it feels annoying to start with, and only worsens with haste as the duration&cooldown decreases with haste 1:1. The cooldown is short enough to start feeling disruptive for no real gain. Which means instead of having to manage and spend resources on it every 6 seconds, with haste (especially higher amounts like during lust) it starts becoming a thing you have to manage every 5 seconds, every 4 seconds, etc. It feels so disruptive that you’re better off picking either of the other two options if you wanted AoE because they feel better… and perform better.
- Hit combo, the gameplay involved with weaving abilities and not repeating anything is great and all. But this just feels like a tacked on extra to an already existing mechanic that does something similar, that being our baseline mastery. Not to mention that it feels like it incurs more of a punishment than a reward.
- Spiritual Focus, can a talent be more dead? Excluding the fact it’s just severely undertuned, it’s whole purpose is to make SEF up more often by reducing it’s cooldown. Which is a problem on it’s own due to the fact that SEF tends to cause a lot of problems, something you might not want to have to play around any more than you already have to.
A couple prominent SEF issues
Touching covenants and our new baseline cooldown, there are very likely others as well as pretty much anything that does damage or only triggers directly from the player tends to not play well with SEF.
- Fallen Order (Venthyr) self-nerfs by 55% because of SEF.
- Bonedust Brew (Necrolord) at first could trigger with clone damage, which was fine… since then it no longer triggers on clones and the damage suffers from the -55% SEF tax.
- Xuen’s Empowered Tiger Lightning doesn’t have any of the fixes regarding SEF to make it so the -55% damage you do doesn’t result in less damage during the window than had you just not used your CD. On this note, two core spells (RSK & WDP), and some of the Covenant damage doesn’t apply at all . Covenant stuff might be intentional, but is a complete departure to how the mechanic worked in legion and BFA so we have no clue what the goal is without any word on the actual design decision.
- Depending on how many targets there are, and where the clones end up spawning they can sometimes end up not copying an ability, resulting in them causing you to lose damage. You could work around this with a macro (might not necessarily be a 100% guarantee), but it destroys the ability to ever have the clones ever spread-cleave as once you commit to fixating them you can no longer un-fixate them.
Obligatory windwalking aura section
Personal pet-peeve of mine, but the windwalking aura not providing the 10% movement speed all the time is a bit of a joke. It’s the only passive movement speed increase to not stack with other external increases, and the other options are even 15%.
Why is it that when I decide to use Chi Torpedo, Tiger’s Lust, anything that provides a speed increase that I temporarily lose benefit from this passive. This made worse due to how anything does this, meaning the speed boosts from Covenant soulbinds, dungeon mechanics, raid mechanics, other classes, etc.
Even worse due the fact they made the speed increase when it was still part of our stance stack with increases way back in 5.1. Which just shows they saw it was a problem and had the forethought to fix it… only to not care later down the line when it was converted into an aura. Which for a mobile spec is a bit odd being the only spec to, at the very least not retain their own passive movement speed buff with other effects.
There are also things I didn’t mention due to them being mentioned elsewhere and having it all included potentially doubling, or even tripling the length of this post. Which is at it’s limit.
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The fact that we’re heading to the prepatch without any updates, even just informative ones, goes to show their interest just doesn’t lie in helping this portion of the playerbase at all.
So if I make a thread about the lore of revendreth you’ll talk about the ancient mount there just because it’s the general forums? Please be logical when replying.
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This is correct there’s more than monks that need a redesign at this point.
It’s unfortunate but starting to spam threads wont get you more sympathy OP.
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Bruh druids get communication and changes nearly every beta build. They are one of blizzard’s favorite classes. Do not compare guardian’s seeming neglect for the entire disregard all 3 monk specs have gotten.
Windwalker has has 3/4 covenant abilities completely bugged since alpha and ONE, A SINGLE TALENT CHANGE SINCE ALPHA, among other things.
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Bumping for visibility. I want monks to be a viable option man
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Even guardians got good changes in the last beta build.
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I considered either monk or dk for SL as I want to main a dps/tank class. DK is looking great. BM looks good. The rest of the monk specs seem forgotten. DK it is. Fix WW Blizz. You have some loyal customers playing this spec. Take care of them.