I think having things like aimed shot and rapid fire, along with a lack of legendaries, conduits, etc, leaves it incredibly lacking compared to what we used to be able to achieve.
A third of the hunter population (myself included) are playing BM. And that’s certainly not meta. I don’t think the meta has much to do with the conversation to be frank.
Some people don’t look at this game from developing side.
It would hurt the game if you change to much like you said, and when it comes to older player well allot of stuff has been changed. Some classes had huge redesign. On other forums people don’t complain as much like on Hunters Forum. I just think , and that’s my opinion that people who complain about SV are just people who complain about anything.
Bro read my post you’re using my own argument against me. Marks is old rsv with a new name. All you guys are clamoring about is the damn name of this Hunter Melee spec. If they made this exact build of marks as the current RSV would you all shut up because you got your spec name back? Probably not because 90% of people like to whine on forums.
No, because the ability names aren’t what matter here. You’re so focused on MM having an ability named Explosive Shot that you’ve either missed or are intentionally ignoring (and I’m inclined to believe the latter) that they have entirely different rotational roles.
Old RSV was about maintaining DoTs and having a very regular instacast short-DoT nuke in Explosive Shot. Nothing in Marks can replicate that playstyle.
There’s no possible build that echoes the actual gameplay of MoP or WoD RSV. Sure, you can make a build that includes an ability named Explosive Shot, but it has precisely as much similarity to RSV’s Explosive Shot as MM’s current Rapid Fire does to MM’s Rapid Fire in MoP (ie. zero).
Frankly, Brigadestar, people like you are the reason I’m increasingly disinclined towards “make RSV a 4th spec”, and increasingly inclined to “just delete MSV and replace it with RSV”, because it would (hopefully) get trolls like you out of the freakin’ class.
I am confused, I don’t think I said that?
Some people, maybe. But I think there is a lot of valid criticism for how blizz decided to implement the spec and they managed to make people feel displaced within their class they have been played for over a decade. I think Blizz really just failed to understand a lot of hunter players and dug their heels in rather than doing what they should have done all along and make a 4th spec. I understand that would require more work and balance. That doesn’t mean I think it is the wrong choice however. Contrary, I think it is the only correct one moving forward.
You and Lazy have both good point. I can agree with both of you.
You are right how people come to forums just to whine, and Lazzy is right how it was changed allot and it’s not the same even if it looks like.
It’s better then these non hunters above arguing about something it’s not worth arguing about. SV hunter is Rexxar style hunter and I love it. More then magic user hunter
P.S back when I used to play on EU servers it was a if you bring SV hunter in raid or dungeon. I remember it was good for pvp in 3v3 or 5v5 in raids people didn’t like it at all. My old guild was don’t bring hunter if it’s in SV spec. Now it’s viable in M+ due his good AoE potential.
Aimed shot fills this Niche. The DoT doesn’t matter single target.
Hard casting Aimed shot doesn’t Hinder our mobility.
Marks has multiple DoTs you can Micro manage (Master Marksman, Serpentstalkers) to maximize Dps but you probably didn’t think about that.
They both procced to get a free cast of your hardest hitting spell making them mechanically the same.
They pretty much deleted Marks and made a spec that’s a hybrid of marks and rsv. Marks won the custody battle over the name. Its people like you that are killing any way for wow to progress because you can’t handle something new and refuse to look outside of your comfort zone. Whiners like you are the reason they won’t add a fourth spec because you’ll probably be on the forums crying that its too OP or similar to another spec.
2.5s cast versus instacast. Let’s add a 2.5s cast to Raptor’s Strike. Clearly it’s the same thing.
Also, 12s CD, but that’s not quite as relevant. The issue is the rotational role and feel, and Aimed Shot brings none of that.
I mean, by this argument, Fire and Frost and Arcane are all the same, because Fireball and Frostbolt and Arcane Blast are all just casted fillers. I mean, why pay attention to the specifics of the rotation when you can just gloss it over to fit your pre-determined zealotry?
I mean, it definitely does, but I agree that skilled play reduces the impact of that considerably. However, my point wasn’t about the mobility aspect, it was the rotational feel. Again, let’s add a 2.5s cast time to Raptor’s Strike, since you seem to think it doesn’t alter anything.
You don’t micro-manage Serpentstalker except in cleave. Master Marksman also isn’t micromanaged at all, it’s literally just passive damage (reinforced by the fact that it’s RNG application). Neither of those require you to actually pay attention to the DoT, especially on single target.
No, it’s not that simple. RSV’s LnL first proced way more often (MM’s LnL averages every 30-35s, depending on haste, while RSV’s was virtually guaranteed at least 1 per Black Arrow and often 2+). Second, RSV’s granted not just a free one, but 3 free ones back to back. Marks already had periodic instacast Aimed Shots via Master Marksman, so regardless of the talent’s name, it’s old Master Marksman, not RSV’s Lock and Load.
They very definitely deleted MM, referring to the MoP/WoD conception, but the new one isn’t even remotely a “hybrid of Marks and RSV”. Marks already had instacast Aimed Shots via Master Marksman and already had Serpent Sting. Marks still has Aimed Shot, and its version of Explosive Shot is mechanically just a variant of Volley. The only thing that made the transition from RSV is some of the ability names. Nothing about MM’s gameplay replicates old RSV.
Really, this is intellectual dishonesty at its finest. You’re ignoring blatant differences and frankly just making stuff up in order to try to justify your crusade that RSV and MM were “identical”, despite all evidence to the contrary. I’m honestly not sure why. Perhaps it’s just a raging fear that Blizzard will do what they’ve left as an open possibility and delete MSV in order to restore RSV.
More and more I’m hoping that happens. Generally I’ve favored RSV as a 4th spec, but given how rabidly some of y’all MSV zealots are not just defending MSV but openly advocating for such faulty arguments to keep RSV permanently gone, I’ve stopped really caring. Delete MSV entirely. Get rid of it, and hopefully, that’ll get rid of y’all as well.
Really? A DoT offers so many tools in PvP. Hit and run guerilla playstyle (really what RSV was known for), preventing stealth, caps, etc.
That is such a disingenuous and insincere statement, I don’t even care to read anything else you posted.
How so? not because of some possible Talent selections, which are seldom used, mainly because they don’t favor the MM playstyle. I could choose Serpent Sting, but I don’t, or Lock and Load, and still don’t. And, as was said earlier, those Talented abilities don’t do for me, as MM, what they did for Survival. Superficial resemblance.
BM yes, because BM is overturned. MM no it isn’t, MM is equally as bad as surv in pvp atm. The only reason BM is decent is its easy to do good consistent damage on it safely.
Try to stick to what you’re decent at, giving your biased and uneducated/inexperience opinion on pvp would be like me trying to teach someone latin.
I mean, there’s barely any survival hunters playing period.
You’re right. The ability to track players as the interact with their covenants proves that basically no one plays survival.
Anecdote is not synonymous with evidence.
According to the forums, people should play what they enjoy, but survival is not secretly good, nor is it secretly popular. All the evidence points to the contrary. It’s not good and it’s not popular.
Do you have any evidence to back up this statement? Because, I do believe you are talking out of your behind.
Legion is irrelevant but there are ways to deal with that if it became an issue.
But sure, 2 xpac old Legion means they’d never make survival ranged again.
Wait… are they using SFE too? I thought that was only good for BM.
They are not. MM has 1 dot which you have to talent into which 1 it is, and the MM dot is the best by far. You can get a 2nd with SST, but that’s only taken because the rest of the MM legendries aren’t great. MM doesn’t rely on dots, and their dots don’t interact with the rest of the kit in any significant way like how Black Arrow used to interact with Explosive Shot via lock n load.
In Legion and then MM players and RSV players forced into MM were for the most part like “This is terrible” and thus in BFA, MM got reverted to the closest it’s been to Vanilla MM since BC.
I understand your point and where you’re coming from. Elune knows on a base level I agree with you. It’s just some of the MSV players who refuse to accept the olive branch and want to insist that MSV is secretly super good and popular and people just need to get over RSV being gone, and this, that, and the other make it really hard to want to keep trying to persuade them and just be like “ef it, delete MSV.”
I say this because MM is ahead of SV in 3v3 2400+ which is the most competitive and relevant PvP.
EDIT: By ahead I mean there are many more MM Hunters than SV Hunters in that bracket; 86 vs 45.
Sure if raptor strike hit as hard as aimed shot lmao.
Yeah pretty much you cast them to proc your other harder hitting spells go on…
Cool make raptor strike hit as hard.
You didn’t need to with explosive shot it was a fire and forget ability just like aimed shot in single target.
Uh-huh you want your spec from warlords and prior to be the exact same and have undergone no changes after 3 expansions.
Hey bud you’re the one foaming at the mouth. None of my arguments said they should have deleted rsv. I have said before in other posts that MSV should have been a new 4th spec. The only thing I’ve been advocating is that Remnants of RSV are tied into the current version of marks. Take a second and breathe, your philosophy of the minority having fun playing something you don’t like and it should be changed to how I like it probably means you should take a step back a reflect on what you actually enjoy.
If we’re gonna argue semantics here you can easily play the DoT and run Playstyle in PVP with Serpentstalkers or SS. Nothing’s stopping you.
So you have to play the meta to have fun?
You say that because you have no idea why that is. MM started the season off with an op gimmick that since has been nerfed into the ground. There was a very long stagnant time this season where every spec of hunter was garbage and the ladder is insanely inactive due to a mmr tweak mid season that severely deflated the ladder.
The pet buffs, pet offensive versa fix, led to BM being insanely good consistent damage… BM and Surv follow the exact same stat prio in pvp while MM doesn’t so even the surv players mostly swapped to BM for ease.
You dunce, just because a class has a dot doesn’t make it a dot-based class.
Old survival wasn’t either.
???
Maybe lay off Melee Survival, it’s clearly causing brain damage and your ability to recall facts.
Dots were passively applied to your abilities. Did survival have to micromanage DoTs? Nah it was stapled on attacks like SS is to marks with the leggo. Black arrow worked on one target.
A Dot spec would be something like Spriest or Afflic. By your logic F mage is a dot spec cause of the passive ignite damage lol.
Going on lunch I’ll talk to you guys in an hour! <3