Yes i was, it it took alot of button mashing but I did it.
I didnt mention exorcism because its damage is bad, consecration and divine storm hold their own just fine. I could see using it in AoE just to be active, but its so miniscule in ST its not even worth a thought.
Also, its very hard to argue that you cant tank with bubble because it drops aggro when the boss is still attacking me, with bubble on… and other people being alive…
Look I can believe you on that point if you meant you were reaching 40k damage but then rapidly falling off once wings are out, Paladin damage is wonky that way, but consistent 40k damage is something only possible at 390+
Could be true I haven’t tried a build without it yet, will check it out when I have the chance.
No, bubble drops your aggro temporarily, once immunity runs off your will get your aggro back unless someone got it off you, it has been like this for a long time now, there’s a reason why Prot have that talent that makes bubble aggro everything around them.
The trees need work. You can’t even consider taking quite a few nodes. As far as consecration goes, most complaints I’ve seen are not related to damage but the usage of the spell (static aoe/no engagement with your resource).
Best you might get is 2% if they even liked your idea to begin with. I would still take that over the current.
You’re typing from a Mage who have 6 damage abilities to press (being generous).
Missing no MS as well and wayyyyy better defensives
I switched to playing Monk from my all time favorite class, the Ret Pally. I did level a ret, trying to keep it current in case it gets fixed.
Slow and clunky. Self healing is pretty bad. I feel like I can easily be deleted in pvp. The self healing is better than ww monk at least but they have dmg (maybe not anymore after the nerfs) to make up for it.
I want my clunky abilities to smack hard, and I want there to be less of them to press.
You’re putting too much thought into it. Perhaps it’s because I’m used to the ebb and flow of managing holy power for a decade, but I’ve yet to have an issue dropping to zero or hitting five. If one is having an issue, I definitely recommend focusing less on watching divine resonance and inner grace and just letting yourself smack the buttons. Perhaps one of the most defining features of ret is that it is less about a dedicated rotation (although it somewhat does exist), and is more about reacting to procs and enjoying the moment. Even if the buff drops for a second or two, the dps from just pressing stuff, positioning better, and aiding through support activities thanks to not stressing your attention on preplanning will more than make up for it. Less stress, more fun! 
Unless I’m missing something, exo is one of our highest damage abilities. Although I definitely agree with it not feeling great. I think the vast majority of use wanted it to replace Blade of Justice. Give exo its refresh proc back and add in the 2 hp from blade. Blade should never have replaced exo, except it was when blizz REALLY hated us having any ranged ability (the “class identity” speed nerf before the speed nerf in a way.) Shoot, just having exo as the default ability animation was far better than the weird sword shooting from the ground. That has never made sense
Completely agree. Like I said before, the further we can distance ret from these Colossus Smash abilities that keep cropping up (old mastery, seraphim, es, final reck, etc.) the better.
DH changed this expac. While I might agree with much of your post, having alted or mained ret ever since TBC, I think you may be a bit behind on Havoc.
They have dmg buff maintenance now and several more dmg rotation abilities than they ever have.
Not 23, but certainly more than “4-6”. One reason is that now both of their movement abilities are part of their dmg rotation. Nerfs to the old build and necessary new active talents have also contributed.
so the button bloats i can understand, i just feel like some Talents should replace base line abilities like… Exo should take the place of CS. and the talents that buff CS / add charge should affect Exo when taken. Final verdict and Justicars vengeance should be the same “node” and you chouse one if you’re going down that side of tree. as Examples^ / my 2 cents
the other issue i think that would be a easy fix is Ret aura… should be…a Aura, and all paladins in the raid should benefit from it >.> so u can run devo and ret without losing DPS if you have 2 rets in the raid.
that’s my 2 cents at least.
Or just like bake the ret aura effects into devo if youre ret spec, so youre not forced to forgo damage if youre required/asked to take devo when pushing harder content, would that be insane/too much? i dont think so.
“Completely agree. Like I said before, the further we can distance ret from these Colossus Smash abilities that keep cropping up (old mastery, seraphim, es, final reck, etc.) the better.”
I can’t agree, but these things are largely driven by preference which is good!
What I think must be addressed is that we shouldn’t have dead wood on the tree. If you don’t want those talents, fair enough, but something must replace them. If they stay they need proper tuning. That was the heart of my statement.
Consecration feels garbage.
Ah flippin MEN. I am honestly dumbfounded with the amount of effort and design Blizzard has put into that spell in our Ret talent trees.
Let’s just hope this means they are looking into Cons in the long run either, because this is definitely a rotational button that does not feel good to press.
I dont think consecration should follow us. That would be too much like death knight’s cold swirl thing. But pulsing or re-concecrating a couple times leaving a trail I could be totally for.
Remorseless Winter, is the spell your thinking of from Frost DK’s (the other plate-meat I mained, last expo.) Probably turn it into a pulse rather than a glowy floor everything moves out of…
In Cata ret was actually somewhat tanky, did pretty good dmg and had very high offhealing, on top of good mobility.
Nobody complained about it back then, late Cata ret is probably the best iteration of the spec, the only minor drawback was that it was capped at 3 hopo but even with that it was balanced around being good at the things it’s suposed to be good at w/o reaching the dreaded “op” status.
It seems the “new generation” (not sure what to call them, don’t mean this in a pejorative way) of devs simply has no clear vision of the spec, it doesn’t seem to be going in any direction.
I’m just a braindead troglodyte, so feel free to disregard my opinion, but I actually don’t mind it. Even if some of the abilities don’t feel good, at least the class always has something to do. Probably being used to it at this point factors in too.
But for comparison, I’m doing some trivial side content stuff on my BM hunter right now. And my god (even though it’s probably just me being bad and also not picking optimal talents) the class feels like such s**t to play. I don’t even remotely enjoy it as much as I used to. Ret Pally at least has it hopo generators and spenders so you can kind of just hit whatever and you’ll be flowing back and forth. My experience with hunter is just blowing through focus, then sitting there tugging on myself waiting for it to Regen before I can hit one ability before it’s drained again. I’ve heard the class is in a good spot dps wise, but it doesn’t feel great to play.
Pallys button bloat at least gives a surface level amount of activeness whole playing. Which I just enjoy more personally. I don’t think it needs to be DH levels of streamlined but as long as it’s still fun I’ll be happy.
That’s why I said “until” Cata. Because it changed with Cata. It changed when Kaplan was no longer left to ruin the class out of spite for something that happened in Everquest.
Get to 5, down to 2, up to 3, then down to 0 is how I do it.
The problem then is knowing when to get to 3 and drop to 0, and when to work back up to 5 to start again.