Blizzard seems to confirm a level squish is coming to WoW... via a random survey

[Hamstar-draktharon (Hamstar)]

They’d be less so, as a Fury Warrior I have 26* abilities right now (spells and passives)… as opposed to 120 levels. That’s really bleugh. As opposed to 26 over 60 levels.

But you wouldn’t actually gain them faster and if they were spread out you would actually gain them slower.

Of course no one is asking for solely a level squish and having nothing at all done to the Classes, we want more abilities and the like.

That can be done without messing with a level squish.

Edit: also I bet almost all of your 26 abilities are given to you in the first 60 levels which means after a squish you are either in the exact same boat or you actually gain those abilities slower.

[Laeth-hakkar]

But you wouldn’t actually gain them faster and if they were spread out you would actually gain them slower.

It’d be about the same, time wise, but then again I’m not asking for classes to stay the same either.

That can be done without messing with a level squish.

The level squish would better enable it.

[Hamstar-draktharon (Hamstar)]

The level squish would better enable it.

But it wouldn’t. If it took you 2 hours to get your next ability before the squish and still takes 2 hours to get it after the squish then you have gained nothing by doing the squish. There is literally no benefit in doing it and doing it will require lots of work that should go to new stuff as well as greatly damaging the already critical condition sense of progression the game has.

[Laeth-hakkar]

But it wouldn’t.

I’m talking about for a design perspective.

If it took you 2 hours to get your next ability before the squish and still takes 2 hours to get it after the squish then you have gained nothing by doing the squish.

But I don’t look at that way, because how fast you level can completely vary, as opposed to I gain something next level vs in 10 levels.

as well as greatly damaging the already critical condition sense of progression the game has.

Or fix it.

[Xalea-wyrmrest-accord (Xalea)]

Okay, so surveys are good. Asking what we want is good. But the survey doesn’t even ASK if we WANT a level squish - it just says “this is going to happen, did you know?” I mean, good god. That right there is 100% what is wrong with Blizzard. Their head is shoved so far up their own black hole they have absolutely no idea who their customers are or what they want. I guess we’ll just sit back and watch ATVI stock keep going down.

[Tyierin-wyrmrest-accord (Tyierin)]

Honest question, why is 120+ ridiculous?

Most of those levels are meaningless. Most classes get their last spellbook spells at level 80. Then their last talents at 100. And then it’s more and more levels of learning nothing.

[Hamstar-draktharon (Hamstar)]

Or fix it.

How would it fix it to anyone who is not making a brand new character?

But I don’t look at that way, because how fast you level can completely vary, as opposed to I gain something next level vs in 10 levels.

But it wouldn’t vary. If it takes you 2 hours or 50 hours to level to the point of getting your next ability then that would be the same if it was 2 levels or 4 levels.

I’m talking about for a design perspective.

Except it still wouldn’t.

Again a pointless change that further damages the already damaged sense of progression to actually accomplish nothing and take away time that should be spent adding new content.

[Karmo-sargeras]

Why in the hell is information like this given out through a survery and not a blue post. I get they suck at this entire communication thing but why on earth could this not be posted. Its like they are trying to show how little they want to tell us about just to stir people up.

I feel something of this size which touches every aspect of the game should be officially brought to our attention and not tossed out as a breadcrumb trail. FFS Bizz come on!!

[Laeth-hakkar]

How would it fix it to anyone who is not making a brand new character?

Because of how you would design around it, 60 levels is a lot different than 120.

But it wouldn’t vary.

Uh yes it would. You could spend time not leveling, you might do content that provides more or less XP, theres a ton of variables.

Except it still wouldn’t.

If you don’t think designing stuff for 60 levels is completely different than designing stuff for 120 levels than I don’t know what to tell you.

and take away time that should be spent adding new content.

Raising the level cap to 125 or 130 isn’t going to solve anything. And again this would be in addition to everything else coming in the next expansion, not the only thing or even the main thing.

[Phydeaux-windrunner (Phydeaux)]

Because most of those levels are meaningless.

They are only meaningless because Blizzard chose to not reward you for them.

Now by reducing the number of levels they are rewarding you more per level, but less overall. And that is how unintelligent many of the players are in this game.

A simple mind trick and they will hop right back on the bandwagon, because it feels so much better. It will take juts as long, and you’ll end up with the same things you have now.

The only thing this allows Blizzard to overcome is their limit on talents and skills in the game. They are capped by existing architecture and they can’t add more spells. That is why the last 3 expansions are a net gain of zero for your characters. It’s why enchanting was redone, and why first aid is gone. It’s why all armor and weapons are reskins of old models.

This is just another way to bleed money from the IP. They will charge full price for an expansion, give you the same things they just took from you, and call it good.

[Hamstar-draktharon (Hamstar)]

Because of how you would design around it, 60 levels is a lot different than 120.

That makes zero sense. You are going to have to explain in detail how this is not a made up thing you just put out.

Uh yes it would. You could spend time not leveling, you might do content that provides more or less XP, theres a ton of variables.

No it would not very. The time it takes a person (not everyone I am talking about a single person) to gain a new ability would be the same.

If you don’t think designing stuff for 60 levels is completely different than designing stuff for 120 levels than I don’t know what to tell you.

You are 100% making this up.

Raising the level cap to 125 or 130 isn’t going to solve anything. And again this would be in addition to everything else coming in the next expansion, not the only thing or even the main thing.

I never said “spend time raising the level cap”. I said “spend time making new content”.

[Laeth-hakkar]

They are only meaningless because Blizzard chose to not reward you for them.

Exactly.

because it feels so much better

The placebo effect isn’t wholly a bad thing, especially when it comes to a videogame, something we engage for fun and enjoyment. Making us feel better is a good thing.

The only thing this allows Blizzard to overcome is their limit on talents and skills in the game. They are capped by existing architecture and they can’t add more spells. That is why the last 3 expansions are a net gain of zero for your characters. It’s why enchanting was redone, and why first aid is gone. It’s why all armor and weapons are reskins of old models.

… is there a sale on tin foil or something?

[Hamstar-draktharon (Hamstar)]

The placebo effect isn’t wholly a bad thing, especially when it comes to a videogame, something we engage for fun and enjoyment. Making us feel better is a good thing .

You are admitting that it is a meaningless change. You are also ignoring how it makes people feel at 120 suddenly going backwards.

[Laeth-hakkar]

That makes zero sense. You are going to have to explain in detail how this is not a made up thing you just put out.

blink

I have to design with 60 individual levels in mind.

I have to design with 120 individual levels in mind.

The former is a lot easier unless they have a ton of content to plug into those 120 levels, which they don’t apparently.

No it would not very. The time it takes a person (not everyone I am talking about a single person) to gain a new ability would be the same.

blink blink Yes it would vary how often people level, some grind really fast, some don’t.

You are 100% making this up.

… 120… is twice the size of 60…

I never said “spend time raising the level cap”. I said “spend time making new content”.

And a level squish doesn’t impede that.

You are admitting that it is a meaningless change

I’m doing the opposite. Levels would feel more meaninful, and it would give breathing room for the designers.

You are also ignoring how it makes people feel at 120 suddenly going backwards.

120 isn’t anything special, it’s simply the current cap.

[Phydeaux-windrunner (Phydeaux)]

… is there a sale on tin foil or something?

If that’s your idea of reply you’re going to have to try harder.

Let me help you. All the way back to TBC when we had a keyring, and then it disappeared. We were told later that they needed to reclaim that space for the void storage, because they can’t add things into the game without taking things out. As you balance classes, races and specs, you find that you never add one thing to the game you add 30+ items when you add one.

Why are our talent trees gone? Why is first aid gone? Why was enchanting reworked to consolidate old items? Why are items reskins (because they don’t require you to add a new item).

Talk to people in game design. You don’t get to rewrite the game after it’s launched. You don’t just define a new table structure and call it good.

It’s only tinfoil if you’re not smart enough to put pieces of a puzzle together.

[Laeth-hakkar]

If that’s your idea of reply you’re going to have to try harder.

You started by calling claiming we were unintelligent so not really.

Talk to people in game design. You don’t get to rewrite the game after it’s launched. You don’t just define a new table structure and call it good.

Wow.

[Melphegor-drakkari]

Being a lower number isn’t that much of an issue. Blizzard messing up balance in all the old world content is what frightens me. They’re are still mogs and mounts and toys and such I like to farm. I have a feeling that if blizzard cuts levels that it’s gonna screw all that up.

Can’t wait for those lvling greens with +1 stam +1 agi, from level 3 until level 35.
Also can’t wait for some random ability in a lvling dungeon nuking the whole group cause they forgot about it.

Actually, can’t wait for the level squish, see how many “Sowwy we maed an oopsie, Pweez wait for patch x.3” posts, tweets, Q&A’s and what not Blizz comes up with.

[Phydeaux-windrunner (Phydeaux)]

Again. You clearly don’t know anybody in game development. You try to fix database issues that contain hundreds of millions of records, that are replicated across data centers in an 8 hour window.

ProTip: You can’t.

[Pyromor-shandris (Pyromor)]

But it’s an questionnaire ,so with that it means nothing but asking people opinion, but wait a minute…since when does Blizzard ask the players for for input?

Oh ,of course,PTR and that went badly didn’t it.

[Laeth-hakkar]

If you say so