DPS does not scale infinitely. There is a cap even for the best of the best. So if your DPS is at the cap for their gear lvl and you still can’t complete the key or kill the raid boss then the DPS needs better gear or the scrub healer that is standing around doing nothing while their team dodges everything and requires minimal healing needs to actually do damage. So many bad healers in here who are bad teammates wanting the world to accept their laziness. If you want to do no damage as a healer good for you. Play how you want. But don’t expect everyone else to accept it and repeatedly group with you.
You can keep saying that but when you’re willfully ignoring a large portion of the statement you are referencing the argument doesn’t exactly hold up.
There’s no need to be toxic about anything but everyone should be contributing to the success of the group 100% of the time.
That includes tanks and healers maximizing their dps when possible–it also includes dps staying out of bad and using their own defensive CDs / heals when needed.
Basically, just be a team player. Watching netflix during downtime isn’t being a team player. lol
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Or, y’know, if they are capable enough at healing and their group isn’t pants-on-head stupid, they could use downtime to do damage and continue contributing?
Every member of your party is not taking lethal or even threatening damage every second of a run. Tanks do not need you sitting there doing nothing but observing in an entire key. You can try to outheal stupid, but eventually you’ll hit a key level where stupid gets sledgehammered into the ground at mach 5.
Press a damned damage button once in a while. If you can’t stop yourself from tunneling damage, play a healer that uses damage to heal people. If you still can’t focus on healing and damage, maybe you should play a DPS.
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Literally, no rational person is saying healers shouldn’t ever do DPS because why would they even have the damage spells? I think my issue is with the fact that you have an opinion about how other people play, and it literally makes no difference if healers DPS or not except in the very toughest of content where DPS is the difference in surviving a boss/mini-boss that is not otherwise survivable because of an enrage timer or wave of mechanics that can be avoided entirely by meeting “DPS checks” due to some bosses/mini-bosses reducing the time between, or stacking mechanics to the point that the onslaught of mechanics becomes unhealable. So let me address each of your points…
- Who cares?
- Who cares?
- Who cares?
- Who cares?
- Who cares?
There are finite solutions to deal with growing difficulties. More gear or improved efficiency. Most people out-gear the content being attempted. In this case, the groupwide DPS that you’ve alluded to is more than enough to ignore all healer DPS requirements. But it is true that at some point, you can no longer get better gear and are thus calling into question the efficiency of players. But this whole thread is only discussing the efficiency of healers to provide extra globals using DPS and IGNORES the following efficiencies: tank pull size, tank pull grouping, tank CDs, tank DPS, tank kiting (necessary and unnecessary), CC by all players, interrupts both in terms of doing them on CD when and where needed and not overlapping group, DPS rotation, DPS CDs, assigning DPS CDs to be efficiently used considering other DPS in the group’s CDs, the use of movement CDs for speed, the use of mounts, target prioritization, affix management, classes played, specs played, the composition/synergy of groups, dungeon requirements, dungeon-specific buffs, tank/DPS responsibilities to avoid avoidable damage, DPS use of defensive spells, use of potions, use of food/rune/alchemical buffs, grouping for better healing throughput with AOE spells, and that is not even everything just pertaining to tanks and DPS. So tell me, if the rest of the group is playing so efficiently, how do you fail keystones? And more importantly, how can you have the gall to expect others to play at a “higher level” if you yourself and the rest of your group do not have your crap together. Stop blaming others!
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There’s always something to heal even if it hasn’t happened yet.
You must not do many lower keys…
That’s not really true. I suppose you can pre-HoT someone before damage but that’s not really always appropriate, especially with heals like Wild Growth which are front-loaded in terms of healing.
If you don’t have a lot of healing spells that you can pre-cast, then casting a spell just to watch your overhealing rise isn’t being proactive, it’s being wasteful.
In truth, no. I only do lower keys when helping a guildie and when that happens we have a full guild group. But given that many people are chasing after rewards or trying to grow their own key, people are typically going to be running close to the highest key they’re capable or the highest key they can get gear from like I do.
If someone plateaus at a +4, then for starters I would say that they’re not a very good player and should probably get their own house in order before yelling at the healer. On top of that if I did see such a player in a +4 I’m running, I would probably report them and push back against them. I’m not a fan of players abusing other players be they good or bad at any key level.
That’s been their position for 20 years, what makes you think anything has changed?
You’re still going to be expected to DPS, no matter how much you pout and stamp your feet
I mean they literally just designed a healing class that gives you healing and healing resources through doing damage,
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We’re no strangers to healing specs that generate resources through damage. People generally don’t react to strongly to the expectation that Pally, Mistweaver, and Disc be expected to do damage since they gain an obvious healing benefit from it. But honestly, the fact that you get a benefit to your healing from doing damage is incidental. A lot of the arguments that make healer damage a good idea don’t rely on that damage buffing your healing and so they apply to all healers. That some healers get extra bonuses when they do damage is just a cherry on top, not the main draw.
Even some healers that don’t get an explicit bonus from their damage kit are incentivized to do damage. When Druid’s HoT someone up, they’re going to have several GCDs where they can heal that person without actively spending GCDs on them. During that time, it’s better to do damage by cat weaving or casting Sunfire than it is to pour more healing into someone who is already being healed. They don’t get an explicit bonus from damage, but their healing style creates windows of opportunity where damage can be done.
Nobody’s saying that healers need to be dpsing 100% of the time. What people are saying is that you should always be casting a spell rather than standing there literally doing nothing waiting for some damage to come in.
ABC. Always be casting. If you’re not using a healing spell, you should be casting a dps spell.
This isn’t ffxiv where they expect you to dps over healing. Where you never use a heal that takes up the gcd because that gcd could have been used on a dps spell to pump out more damage.
What people want is to look over and see their healer doing something. You shouldn’t ever just be standing there not doing anything looking like you’re afk just waiting for someone to take damage so you can cast a heal.
Blizzard making encounters where healers have to heal isn’t the problem since the healers are then contributing 100% of the time. The problem is during down time when a lot of healers don’t press buttons.
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I don’t think I’ve ever met a healer who would expect a tank to not use their own self heals, but they’re too good to toss a few DPS spells during healing downtime?
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Yes, it is, I’ve been healing in WoW since forever, I’m not talking about overhealing, I’m talking about proactive healing. It’s always better to stay ahead of the game than to fall behind and need to play catch up.
I’ve seen it in game. Don’t try that with me.
A healer is just that. A healer.
Their dps abilities should only be used in solo content so they dont have to swap to a dps role to kill their quest mobs if they dont want to.
A healers duty is to keep their party team alive and shouldnt have to be bothered to deal damage, that is the dps duty.
If a healer has to dps to help us clear content then something is wrong.
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You can’t heal someone at full health and your window to prep a cast before a damage pulse comes out is only the cast time of your spell.
It doesn’t matter how long you’ve been healing. Simple math says that people don’t need to be healed every GCD. There simply isn’t that frequent unavoidable damage to heal through. When no one needs to be healed, you do damage.
I 100% refuse to believe that the people in your group are telling you to top DPS charts as a healer.
IF they are, the fact you’re giving those kind of players any attention is insane.
Also, based off the forum discussion, NOBODY HAS SAID THIS OR EVEN IMPLIED IT.
You keep trying to deny what someone else has encountered.
Why?
Because you’re using a one off scenario to carry your entire argument when this is not what we are asking of you.
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“We”?
No. You do not get to downplay what I have seen in game, nor do you get to limit my experiences, understood?
I didnt downplay what you seen?
I’m telling you it has little merit in the grand scheme of things.
You are so traumatized by your one scenario that you are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.
Why play a game that has traumatized you so much that you can’t understand that the entirety of this discussion, NOBODY HAS ASKED YOU TO TOP METERS.