There’s a lot of discussion on the forums and a lot of concern and such being thrown around, and none of it seems very constructive or helpful to actually resolving any issues. There’s a lot of suggestions, which everyone should know by now is not good feedback. So here is a list of what I hope is direct, explicit, and constructive feedback in a positive and meaningful way.
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Paladin runes feel awkward, clunky, or just plain not useful. If the point of the runes is to make us want to use them or hit more buttons, it’s not working. It feels like there’s a lot of conflicting design space here and too many ideas that just aren’t solving problems we have. Horn of Lordaeron is just worse than Blessing of Might, competes with two major ret runes, and is locked to the party. Raids aren’t going to want to put a holy paladin into a melee group for a suboptimal buff, so this is going to go to waste. And tying set bonuses to this feels really bad. Hammer of Wrath is a very clunky spell to try and use. Giving it a reset below 10% isn’t going to be worth a rune slot. We might get one extra cast of it, amounting to a tiny amount of bonus damage. And the whole time it will feel awful to use. There’s just a general feeling of a lack of direction and purpose for these runes.
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ACP on use effect is too powerful. It was always going to be too powerful. It’s why you had to make a consumable for druids so they would use something else. And paladins will EVENTUALLY use something else too. But it feels bad not to have reasonable and interesting weapon upgrades. Getting new loot is fun. I don’t want to be lugging around a gnomer weapon in MC.
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Most of the other melee classes have been given some kind of PVP utility. Whether it be extra mobility and fight control that warriors and rogues got with their runes and the new ranged weapon, shaman getting freedom as a totem and a lot of powerful defensive tools, even low mobility classes like priests got dispersion. But paladins are still stuck without a gap closer or mobility tool in game right now. We are entirely reliant on using our 5 minute cooldown and trying to run people down. Between seals being purgable and all our main utility being attached to the leg runes, there’s not much we can really do effectively. There needs to be something a bit more in the mix here.
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Rune swapping stinks. Too many of our slots are hard locked to specific requirements due to how other runes interact with them. Art of War requires exorcist, which means you can never pick rebuke or avenger’s shield. Martyrdom is also the go to seal option because it’s just better than every other seal in the game for all playstyles, so when using divine storm it just feels really bad. We have these situational utility runes that will never get used or hold value because they are too restricted or fight with too many other slots to get any real benefit.
17 Likes
Add a section about nerfing paladin tanks.
add a section about giving our weapon skill to everyone else
…What? LOL. Paladin…tanks? What about Paladin tanks do you have a problem with?
Damage? Shaman Tanks quadruple their damage.
Threat? Alpha is stronger than Salv.
Defense? WoTE is absolutely 100% stronger than any ability Paladin tanks have.
Really weird statement.
3 Likes
Well said, while I might disagree with a number of your posts in other threads, you have summed up the problems well especially #1 and #4.
For #2 agree any weapon/item which is so powerful that it simply can’t be swapped out to an what should be an arguably better weapon in a few levels needs to be looked at, especially since they tend to hide bigger problems, and a better option instead of making a class reliant on a meme item, it would be better to change the item/class so it wasn’t an issue. Nobody should need to use the ACP at 60. Druids are especially impacted by this having a number of items where like this such as the ACP and also the wolfshead helm.
As for #3, while I suspect some would disagree, I think the only real spec struggling in PvP right now is Holy. Any real boosts to ret will potentially make it to strong at least in the mind of all the bad PvPers who once died to a ret paladin who used bubble, and which are now scarred for life. I also think if they dealt with the issue of runes identified in 1/4 it would also help with some of the PvP issues because it would add more flexibility into not tying up multiple runes for a spell like Exorcism.
Edit: One thing they could look at also is more PvP/PvE effects on runes (for all classes), for example I can understand not making a rune which makes Hammer of Wrath instant since in PvP paladins already have crazy burst, and this would add to that, but this isn’t an issue in PvE, so there is no reason one of the runes couldn’t have a secondary effect of making the spell instant, but only against PvE targets.
Engrave Helm - Wrath Engrave your helm with the Wrath rune:
Your Consecration damage can now be critical strikes, and damage from your Exorcism, Holy Shock, Holy Wrath, and Consecration spells gains additional critical strike chance equal to your melee critical strike chance.
If Shockadin/Ret/Prot are expected to use Consecration as a supplemental AoE ability then I’d like to see it’s mana cost reduced. It already does so little damage even using a lower rank is just an inefficient use of mana.
Engrave Bracers - Purifying Power Engrave your bracers with the Purifying Power rune:
Reduces the cooldown on Exorcism and Holy Wrath by 50%, and Holy Wrath can now be cast at any target and will Stun Undead and Demon targets for 2 sec.
Make Holy Wrath instant cast with this Rune and reduce it’s mana cost as well. 800 mana every 30 seconds is practically half my mana every 30 seconds. Even with mana buffing consumables/pots/dark rune the mana consumption outweighs the mana return by double.
Divine Storm needs to do Holy damage and scale with Holy Spell power just like they did with Crusader Strike. SoM should NOT be the goto option for Retribution paladins. Divine storm needs to do more damage if we’re going to choose it over SoM.
1 Like
There aren’t any shaman on Alliance, but yeah, nerf shaman way harder.
Paladin tanks are the easiest to play by an immense margin, have every kind of threat OOTB, don’t give up mitigation to do so, and do great damage to boot.
Using shaman as a counterpoint has to be a joke. We know they’re disgustingly op. Paladin tanks are too, to a lesser extent.
1 Like
It is the counterpoint because both are faction locked. Horde get insanely OP Shamans, and Alliance get…strong…WAY less OP Prot Paladins.
If you’re complaining from a Warrior tank PoV just wait till 60 when it’ll be 80% Warriors in Raids and you wouldn’t take any tank other than a Warrior.
If anything I feel bad for Feral tanks and I think they need threat assistance badly. Feral tanks need to be buffed in general.
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Why not? Druids did that all the way up to Naxx, if I remember…they also carried like 20 of them things at a time. 
I think the issue is everyone is simming and, as I’ve said in another thread, trading ‘Future Damage’ for ‘Now Damage’. – I simmed my Classic (2019) Ret at something like 600dps with all WBs and Consumes…I went OOM in about 70 seconds, when most fights lasted around 2 minutes unless you were using a ‘meta comp’, in which case, you weren’t taking Rets anyways.
For example. I don’t use AoW. I go OOM without Guided. So while AoW is a dps gain. I sit OOM and just auto-attacking while spamming CS to get back mana to start the rotation again.
Also…how is Horn worse than BoM??? Not only is Horn giving STR (so 2 AP per 1 STR) it’s also giving AGI for crit. Which means more uptime of Vengeance.
I do agree we need a gap closer. I vote that judging Justice should reduce the speed of the target to 60% or boost our speed by 20% if the target is 5yrd away or further. ANY OF CHANGES LIKE THIS SHOULD BE A SKILLBOOK AND NOT A RUNE!
1 Like
They are also getting a consumable. And I already outlined the reason.
I believe current Horn is 26 Str and 26 agi (I can’t check atm servers are down) exclusive with might. Might grants 104 AP, or 52 str equivalent. You do the math on that one and tell me why you think 26 agi is worth more than 26 str to a ret. Even if stat wise it is even with the value, it’s just worse than what you want already AND it is a rune slot so you’re giving up something for nothing. You are getting no additional benefit and you are losing out on whatever the rune slot is.
Just saw the tier set bonuses for next phase.
Corrupted Spiritweaver’s Mail - Shaman
New 3-piece set bonus:
NEW Emerald Rains Reduces the cast time of Healing Rain by 100%.
Obsessed Prophet’s Plate - Paladin
New 3-piece set bonus:
NEW For Lordaeron!! Horn of Lordaeron reduces the cast time of your next 2 Holy Light spells by 0.2 sec.
What?!
Shamans get to instant cast their AoE heal
Paladins get .2 sec off of a heal they rarely use. AND only if they use Horn of Lorderon.
100% fair and balanced
I’m convinced there are blizz devs looking at paladin and going “Yeah let’s stomp on them some more”
I see you’re keeping up the trend.
Well, if it is any consolation, we rarely ever use healing rain because is shares a slot with overload which is a 50% chance to get an extra heal at 50% potency. Too good to pass up.
1 Like
That is actually a lot of consolation yeah, but then it makes me more upset that your class design is bad too. why make shamans pick between those 2 runes. its absolutely ridiculous.
I think it is similar to priest picking between circle of healing and penance. CoH/Healing rain can be situationally better where there will be a huge party wide hit like the shield break on the turtle boss, but overall the single targeted heals are better
I agree. Blizz, we need changes
I don’t want ACP playstyle for paladins, its lame af.
4 Likes
Gives us healing runes on more then 3 slots. Its a joke
1 Like
For ACP/SOM to go away we need the following:
Divine Storm needs to do Holy Damage
Divine Storm and Crusader Strike need spellpower coefficients
Holy Wrath needs to be instant cast with the rune equipped and cost less mana
Consecration needs to cost less mana with the rune equipped.
1 Like