A common trend among the datamined S2 dungeon changes (obligatory caveat that datamined changes are subject to change) is that the changes seem to be oriented at making tanks take more damage than previously done.
This is after a season S1 of a tank shortage and tanks getting frustrated due to the tank changes in TWW. And when there’s a tank shortage, there’s a shortage in the amount of M+ runs because people don’t want to fight the LFG boss.
An increase in tank difficulty will also reinforce the tank meta even more, and make it completely impossible for less popular tanks (coughBrewcough) to get a group. Which makes the tank shortage even worse.
What is the design goal of these changes?
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These changed would be okay if they at least put all tank in line with Prot Pally in terms of survivability. Cause at this moment I don’t think they’re deleting the change on inner CD of casts.
So, a tunning upwards for all tanks till their survivability gets similar to prot, at least would help with the tank shortage:
Pally: Top Tank in DMG Dealt, Sustain, Group Utility, M+ Utility (Infinite kicks, 3 thousands immunities, high healing etc.)
Prot Warr: Close Sustain to Pally. but so smooth on inc damage, some utility, a CD for Max HP (meh) and a stun cone (not bad)
Brew: Hard Survivability, not even Top DMG, Not smoothest incoming damage. Good utility, useless for lasts Seasons M+ Design. So Tunning and aditional options
VengDH: M+ utility and High DPS. TOO spiky damage, Window Weaknesses are too long. If u wanna cheat death–> 1 talent for cheat death each 8 min, while pally got a cheat death each 2min (base cooldown) whose CD is reducen with the normal rotation of abilities…
And now by some reason that I don’t understand they started to use Brewmaster Tank Class identity on VengDH Hero tree, which makes me be so afraid they rework Brew into some non stagger class and develop stagger stuff on VengDH.
Dont do that.
I mean, I have played all tanks for lot of seasons. Brew is the one I main and play always. If they let me 10 mins I could easily fix every Tank issues from these seasons, last ones, and the incoming ones so fast.
Why could I do that? Because I actually play their game, as tank. And know whats failing on rest of tanks and M+ environment.
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Hey wth, you did say anything about how great blood dk is! I dont care you didn’t mention druid, no one cares about bears
How do you figure that they want tanks to “take more damage” when the tier sets are proc’ing major defensives?
Numbers wise there is no tank shortage or difference in comparison to DF S3. This is a cope argument fueled by nothing other than anecdotes.
Do you realize what you are even asking for? Prot Paladin has one of the lowest mitigation among tanks. The reason we are meta is because of the Damage we deal. Prot War is supreme in terms of mitigation.
Yeah those M+ changes overall seem to be turning M+ encounters into unfair gameplay, stuff like making tank busters 0.5s casts before they go off instead of 2s when they said they don’t want people relying on WAs to show them all the information needed to complete an encounter, but in the same vein make next to no time to react to telegraphed moments in a fight just show that the dev team are out of touch with the actual gameplay right now.
Now if any dev is by chance reading this, please go back to the basics provide clear and intended telegraphs so that WAs or the ability to see into the future are not needed in basic gameplay.
Ah yes that 1RPPM 4s buff which if on rate and no haste scaling at all will make it so much easier to predict damage intake as a tank.
/s
I just don’t get you, every single thread you come in and spout the most nonsense arguments because you think you are informed, but you’re actually misinformed.
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You don’t need to “get” me. Fact is you seem to be the one following me around and engaging with me. You claim I’m misinformed when it’s clear that you are just salty about being hard stuck.
I don’t use WA, so I guess it’s not actually needed now is it.
Sorry but in what world do you think that’s even an argument?
You have no logical retort for your misinformed opinions that has any merit to it at all.
I can clearly see you’re not the best critical thinker out there.
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You thought this sarcastic thing here was a “logical retort”? Lmao. Maybe practice what you preach.
Again, you are the one following me from thread to thread and initiating with me. If you are going to engage from the start with a sarcastic nothingburger then you shouldn’t expect anything more than what you give.
You also completely ignored the entire WA bit because your argument fell apart.
Just look at the tunning they’re doing on Season 2 dungeon pool. Lots of attack changed from “Random target” to “Only attacks primary target and deals +100% damage” for example.
Well, that’s in theory, but in practice everything changes.
In theory Brews should be the smoothest damage taken tank. Or the Top DPS, as devvs said several times, but turned out it isn’t.
And you can tell me that playing prot pally is not easy, that if you don’t manage properly your cooldowns you’re dead. Well, let me tell you that SO BAD you have to manage them to run out. Cause if you wanna know what feels like dying because of failing on 1 GCD, go play current Brew
And I know what I’m talking about, I’ve played all tanks this season. And DH is in the same state of Brew in that aspect
Everything being discussed is “in theory” and not in practice. The fact is the forums is 99.9% terrible at theory crafting.
Even if you look at the top logs of the top players Warriors take less damage and have higher mitigation numbers. This isn’t a subjective thing that can be disputed. Paladins are objectively squishier and have less mitigation.
There’s no tank shortage. The problem is in your head
I dont do M+ at all this expansion, but when I would do up to 16s previously I felt adequate. Tank damage felt very impactful, tanks had a lot of tools to be fairly self sufficient, and that was popular. If tanks are now struggling to survive nearly every pull, that cannot be popular with them. Maybe healers do like having more difficulty keeping the tank alive, but if you can’t find a tank to do your key, or you can’t find a tank that can survive it, it doesn’t get done.
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Just when I was excited to come back to tank for my friends… Guess it will be another pvp season.
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I mean Prot Pally damage AND interrupts are both pretty ideal for the current season. A plethora of CDs for certain dungeons doesn’t hurt, but damage and kicks tend to be the main reason.
Interrupts definitely help, but let’s not forget that even with the same amount of utilities & interrupts Prot Pal was still bottom tier next to BM until 11.0.5. The main reason for the shift was because of the damage that was nerfed two weeks later. This also shifted the Healer meta from Shaman to Disc Priest because they can deal the most damage, cover Prot Pal defensive gaps, and it’s okay that they don’t have an interrupt because Prot Pal covers for them.
If the interrupts was a main reason then we would have seen them higher in representation prior to the .0.5 patch.
The tier sets are all bad and need to be updated. Having a CHANCE to proc a defensive is really bad, because you can get it at the wrong time.
This is how every single tier set should be
2 Set: Each time you take damage, you have a chance to activate Luck of the Draw! , casting Survival Instincts for 4 seconds. Your damage is increased by 15% for 8 seconds after Luck of the Draw! activates.
4 set: Casting survival instints grants you luck of the draw. After gaining Luck of the Draw! , your next 10 Druid abilities cast another Druid ability at 125% effectiveness.
Basically, you should get a guaranteed Luck of the draw when you use your major defensives. That way you know when the DPS buff is coming.
That is very true, however with that patch came the Prot Pally rework which provided both additional holy power and durability that smoothed out PP’s biggest weakness (getting gibbed during SotR or CD downtime). Prot Pally was actually very good prior to that for any level of M+ where the damage intake wasn’t high enough to threaten them, due to those very same interrupts.
Add in the survivability and damage buff they got in the .5 patch and those interrupts became super enticing (really heck their entire package is enticing).
Prot Pally was “wow I’d love to use them for M+ but they die too easy”, then suddenly “well they don’t die that easily anymore AND they do a heck of alot of damage, definitely taking”.
The issue in S1 for tanks is the sheer amount of tank busters. Dungeons like GB keep you on the edge your seat because of the shadowflame slashes, rimes, and ogres that force you to kite. First boss in CoT, Dawn, and SV slam you with tank busters that one shot you without a defensives. It was just too little too late by the time they nerfed the tank busters.
In other seasons I tanked on there were little to no tank busters at all.
Also, the sheer amount of interrupts required makes Prot Paladins feel almost like a necessity. I can do 40-60 interrupts in some dungeons just on my tank.
That’s not true and is why people were constantly complaining about feeling like paper. Even with the talent reworks we are considered to be on the bottom half in terms of mitigation.
The majority of survival “buffs” were baked into the build after removing it from existing talents. We gained a small, but noticable increase in mitigation that didn’t exist before the patch.