Specs balance in M+ (high keys)

Hey, everyone!

I really like the current x-pack, I’ve been playing this game for about 20 years, and only in the last 2-3 years with the release of the Dragonflight, I’ve been enjoying almost every aspect of it.

My only misunderstanding is that for 2+ months there have been absolute
dominant specializations in the game and weaks specs for M+ (B, C tier), you have thousands, tens of thousands of logs, is it really impossible to balance this game based on this data, or are you just not interested in what is happening in the game at the moment?

Making the strong weaker, making the weak stronger, it’s all very simple, I’m not talking now about an ideal, absolute balance, I’m more about balancing, an attempt to reduce this gap between one and the other.

Update:

Probably many did not understand the point, I meant that the meta should not absolutely dominate, but there will always be the best and strongest specializations, it’s obvious, I wanted to say that those specializations that are at the bottom should get out of this bottom, where are the buffs of specializations that are already 2 months at the bottom of the ladder? Blizzard has information and logs about current M+ state, what the problem is in buffing them?

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Tier lists are not data. They’re click bait for the brain dead.

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Who said that tier lists and data, are same things? Tier list just show us obvious statistics.

Lol okay. Tell us more about the objectivity of random streamer tier lists.

I’m not surprised that you play this class and specialization, go to Raider io, select the Mythic + tab, after Timed Run Leaderboards, and just check the first 40 tanks, their class and spec, lol. You can even check first 120 of them (119 prot paladins and 1 BM monk).

Lol, what a funny circus actor who uses makeup and makes everyone laugh.

I’ll really surprise you now, but there are statistics, special websites with logs, etc.

If you actually looked at any of those sites, or even my armory, you’d know I don’t play prot. But you’re a tier list believer so you don’t actually use your brain or read.

Asking for nerfs to prot paladin shows you have no idea what you are talking about

Prot paladin isn’t overpowered in any way, their weaknesses are just overshadowed by a comp including discipline priest, aug, and enhance shaman

Which wow, crazy, all of the top comps you are pointing out have those

Nerf/remove any combo of disc/aug/enhance from the equation which is the true cancer of god comp and prot paladin immediately falls to pieces

Prot paladin damage doesn’t carry keys, survivability does, and disc/aug provide the survivability prot needs to do damage and to continue pulling - enhance provides the damage boost with pi that aug detracts in the comp to speed through keys

Better yet, if you don’t believe me, feel free to play prot paladin without those classes at any key above 12, let me know how that feels versus having that comp listed and even adding a frost dk

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This is extremely skewed data because you are looking at the very top teams competing for the .1% Title. Even if Blizzard balanced the classes near perfect, there would still be a “meta” because the smallest gains means you can push that much more.

The sheep players see what the top teams are doing and try to copy their team compositions without understanding the nuances. You seem to be one of them.

Not everyone who plays Paladin are meta swappers.

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Haha, very funny, it looks like a bunch of wolves came to talk about what strong and dangerous animals sheep are and how good everything is.

Of course.

There’s definite room for improvement, but trying to argue that balancing will get rid of metas or tier lists is illogical.

M+8

M+10

M+12

It’s not until you get past rewards where you see meta classes take off.

Have you ever thought that all the strongest and best players who want play M+ dungeons, play above 12, 13, 14 M+ keys? You can also send me statistics on 2, 4, 6 M+ keys (but an indicator of what this will be?), the most effective and strong specs are in the top, and top players (elite of this game) play there, those who maximize the gameplay outcome for their class and specialization.

This was already discussed. When you get to bleeding edge keys you will always have a meta regardless of balancing because one class will always be better. That’s how metas form. People see what the top players are doing and are sheeps that follow without understanding why. Looking at stats from the top is skewed data.

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Yup, i agree! It will happen naturally - and that’s okay imo…because i think it’s a positive for the game. It forces innovation and theorycrafting (which keep the system alive & interesting).

Players will often try to be more creative, and explore other combinations/strategies, because there will always be an audience of people that want to play off meta or accomplish things in unconventional ways.

that’s another way meta’s and new strategies form sometimes. You see it in lots of different game genres, so don’t get it twisted - a meta slave isn’t necessarily the only successful player type in a given community!

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You want to break the meta, remove Aug completely. One class that’s been in 92% of title keys since it’s appearance. It’s the linchpin of the meta right now.

Balance would help a little bit, but as Sosari mentioned a “meta” will always exist. It only becomes a problem when the meta becomes so prevalent in all levels and aspects that no one plays anything else. Or in M+ case, no one invites anyone but meta. So you end up putting your key up and wait for the meta to arrive, or play a meta and join others.

Why are you explaining these obvious things to me? Probably many did not understand the point, I meant that the meta should not absolutely dominate, but there will always be the best and strongest specializations, it’s obvious, I wanted to say that those specializations that are at the bottom should get out of this bottom, where are the buffs of specializations that are already 2 months at the bottom of the ladder? Blizzard has information and logs about current M+ state, what the problem is in buffing them?

Making the strong weaker, making the weak stronger, it’s all very simple, I’m not talking now about an ideal, absolute balance, I’m more about balancing, an attempt to reduce this gap between one and the other.

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Blizzard simply doesn’t have the resources to balance so many classes, specializations, hero talents, races, and items across so many different kinds of content and group sizes. Does anyone think they wanted to release TWW with so many bugs and balance issues they knew about all through beta? Their development timelines just don’t work anymore with whatever situation is going on over there in Irvine. The corporation and shareholders are still making huge profits and players throw money at them like it’s water in the desert for things like the bruto, so I wouldn’t hold my breath expecting change.

I understand that this suits you, because in your specialization you can easily roll your face on the keyboard and be at the top, but alas, your specialization is not the only one in the game, there are about 40 more of them. So this is worth more attention than you might think.

You think that I didn’t check it earlier, oh, you’re not a tank, retribution is a completely different thing of course.

Oh, so it’s just a coincidence, that in Mythic + Level 12 and up - 9,9% prot (72k) and 8.1% (60k) ret paladins? And 0% devastation evokers (1143, lol what, cited this particular specialization as an example because I’m devastation evoker as a main char, and I dont like aug spec at all). If we just talk about other specializations, in the top:

DD

  1. Ret paldins 8.1% (60k)
  2. Enh shamans 6.7% (49k)
  3. Frost DKs 6.6% (48k)
  4. Aug evokers 5.5% (40k)
  5. Assa rogues 4.9% (36k)
  6. Elemental shamans 4.1% (30k)

Tanks

  1. Prot paldins 9.9% (72k)
  2. Prot warrior 4.0% (30k) (Lol, that’s the gap, right?)
  3. Guard druid 1.6% (12k)

Source of information:

https ://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-tww-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict#role=all:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=12:maxMythicLevel=99

And I don’t need paladins to write here about how great and good everything is in the game, play the population specialization in M+ keys 12 and up, from the end, then tell me the same thing.

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How’s that breakdown look in the actual title range, again? Oh yeah, it’s almost entirely 5 specs (okay 7 if you count the next two most popular, which are alternate dk/sha specs). I’m skeptical that you’ve even run a 12+ key.

I suggest you play in M+ keys with your rogue (Outlaw or Sub spec, whichever one you like best), until the end of the season just 2 - 3 months, show a master class and same feedback.

Eregos-Karazhan (EU), my main char, you can check.

It’s obviously not “obvious” to you if you are continuously trying to look at the top performers instead of the average or high average.

You can literally look at the person’s run history and see if they were playing the class before they were meta or not. Paladin tanks were 2nd to last, next to BM, until the .0.5 patch. You could also see if they played the same class/role in previous seasons.

Like I said, not all players who play meta classes are meta swappers.