Blizzard new feedback emails proves this expansion has reached an all time low subs record

Community General Discussion
463
10/28/2018 08:26 PMPosted by Mav
10/28/2018 12:37 PMPosted by Snowfox
MVP's hold to a higher standard than any GD poster criticizing them.

You have a point though, that it's kind of unfair how we expect MVPs to just take all that troling and nastiness - and have to not respond in kind, even being attacked BY the trolls for not behaving better while the trolls don't hold to any standard at all. Then players tut-tut the MVP for a bit of sarcasm in the face of open swearing and insults.

Over time that's made the trolls nastier and more brazen.


You accepted the post - therefor you accept the fact that it comes with negatives. Don't try to deflect the problems unto others, you knew very well what you signed up for.

I work in customer service - I'm a cashier at a restaurant right now. I know that if something comes out of the kitchen and it's not to a customer's taste

Holy cow you do realize MVPs are just posters and not in Customer Service?

Your attitude treating them like they are, is a huge part of the problem.
464
10/28/2018 08:29 PMPosted by Snowfox
10/28/2018 08:26 PMPosted by Mav
...

You accepted the post - therefor you accept the fact that it comes with negatives. Don't try to deflect the problems unto others, you knew very well what you signed up for.

I work in customer service - I'm a cashier at a restaurant right now. I know that if something comes out of the kitchen and it's not to a customer's taste

Holy cow you do realize MVPs are just posters and not in Customer Service?

Your attitude treating them like they are, is a huge part of the problem.


My attitude in treating you like you accepted responsibilities is a huge part of the problem?

LOL.

You accepted the post. You accepted the positives/negatives that came with it. Instead of accepting the negatives, you deflect them by blaming it to everyone else.

I've had to deal with TONS of hate in my life, far more than your mind can even grasp, for things I couldn't control.

Hell, I was insulted because my mother died when I was 2. I was made fun of because my mother was dead.

And I moved on. It hurt me for many years, until I simply learnt to accept it (And after punching a few people in the face).

Yet here you are, crying about words on a forum you can CHOOSE to not go on, where you can CHOOSE to not post on, where you can CHOOSE to state your opinions.

Cry me a freaking river, you little snow.
465
10/28/2018 08:32 PMPosted by Mav
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Holy cow you do realize MVPs are just posters and not in Customer Service?

Your attitude treating them like they are, is a huge part of the problem.


My attitude in treating you like you accepted responsibilities is a huge part of the problem?

LOL.

You accepted the post. You accepted the positives/negatives that came with it. Instead of accepting the negatives, you deflect them by blaming it to everyone else.

I've had to deal with TONS of hate in my life, far more than your mind can even grasp, for things I couldn't control.

Hell, I was insulted because my mother died when I was 2. I was made fun of because my mother was dead.

And I moved on. It hurt me for many years, until I simply learnt to accept it (And after punching a few people in the face).

Yet here you are, crying about words on a forum you can CHOOSE to not go on, where you can CHOOSE to not post on, where you can CHOOSE to state your opinions.

Cry me a freaking river, you little snow.

I feel like you're not really seeing the point about bashing mvps.

.. and you're just somebody I upset in some other thread carrying a grudge.

If this is about me, then I just don't really care about your opinion. It's below boring and irrelevant.

If it's about the mvp program, then maybe it's worth engaging.

Which is it?
466
This is the kind of thing they use to send people, I haven't seen anyone get a survey in over a year. It could be that one of the interns running the game screwed up and triggered the old surgery BS to send out. I doubt this was on purpose as Ion doesn't give a patooey about the customers.
467
10/25/2018 08:55 PMPosted by Magaloku
They have also been asking people to do a 30 mins skype chat to talk about these questions.


If they send me one they had better plan to spend a lot more than 30 minutes talking to me. I have a four page list!
468

I feel like you're not really seeing the point about bashing mvps.

.. and you're just somebody I upset in some other thread carrying a grudge.


There is no point in bashing MVPs. That's the thing. But by being an MVP, you will get bashed, even if things are not your fault (AKA, you're the cashier while Blizzard is the cook).

And no, you didn't upset me: Your posts tend to make me facepalm more than anything else. Everything you tend to post points to the same trend of deflection and incapability of comprehending differing opinions.

So let me restate this : Positive Feedback is insanely rare. Having customers come back day, after day, after day, without them giving feedback be it positive or negative, is positive feedback in itself.

It tells you you're doing something right. However, if you serve them a cold burger and they never come back, you understand that serving a cold burger is a no-no. Thing is; They don't understand and instead they cry about needing feedback.

So they made forums for the Alpha/Beta tests. My company also tests their new burgers with sample sizes, and they ask for their feedback (AKA, Alpha/Beta forums). They then brainstorm the feedback "is this burger good enough? What was the most common feedback we received? What can we improve?".

Then, they decide to push it out or not, after having taken into consideration the feedback received.

Blizzard, on the other hand, looks at the extensive threads of feedback (be it negative, positive, constructive, dismissive, etc) and just wave it off.

Then, they push the changes out and wonder why, after people tasted their new "burger" they spat it out and started complaining loudly.

And instead of going "okay, we'll fix it and we'll re-read the feedback we had" they instead delete said feedback, yell at their customers "YOU'RE THE PROBLEM! YOU DIDN'T GIVE US FEEDBACK!" and slam the door before going to their friends and talking about how their customers are just the worst.

So let's end the analogy here : Blizzard gets feedback. They just don't act on it. Which gave us WOD/BFA. When they did listen to feedback, at least in part, we got Legion. Which was somewhat more to the taste of the players than the 2 bad expansions they got out. (They only partially listened to feedback back in Legion, and still made an expansion that was much better than just outright not listening. Who could've guessed.)

Therefor : All feedback is necessary. Be it noise, be it negative, be it the somewhat positive (which is often shown by the lack of negative feedback about it, or the very small amount of it), be it aggressive or not constructive.

Eventually, customers will give up and leave, to never comeback.
469
10/28/2018 08:47 PMPosted by Mav
Therefor : All feedback is necessary. Be it noise, be it negative, be it the somewhat positive (which is often shown by the lack of negative feedback about it, or the very small amount of it), be it aggressive or not constructive.

I'm not really clear on your thesis there.

You seem to be arguing that all feedback is necessary.. but that just means everything -I- write is necessary.. because it's feedback too, and all feedback is necessary.. so no matter how many positive things I write or defense of the game.. or attacks on the game.. or snarky things.. it's all necessary and you're arguing for my right to do it?

Or were you arguing for the right for people to bash me? .. or for me to bash them back?

It seems like you're just arguing for reality to be reality.
470
10/28/2018 12:01 PMPosted by Hardwire
My survey was about the transmog system. Clearly, transmog restrictions are why subs are at an all-time low.


Well, this is why people stay subbed to FFXIV in end game ;P.

I wish I would get a survey too though :(.
471
10/28/2018 08:49 PMPosted by Snowfox
10/28/2018 08:47 PMPosted by Mav
Therefor : All feedback is necessary. Be it noise, be it negative, be it the somewhat positive (which is often shown by the lack of negative feedback about it, or the very small amount of it), be it aggressive or not constructive.

I'm not really clear on your thesis there.

You seem to be arguing that all feedback is necessary.. but that just means everything -I- write is necessary.. because it's feedback too, and all feedback is necessary.. so no matter how many positive things I write or defense of the game.. or attacks on the game.. or snarky things.. it's all necessary and you're arguing for my right to do it?

Or were you arguing for the right for people to bash me? .. or for me to bash them back?

It seems like you're just arguing for reality to be reality.


Yes, all feedback is necessary. Your feedback is, too.

Thing is, you often don't give feedback, you merely attack anyone that disagrees with you and go with a "So what you're saying is..." approach, which shows complete dishonesty.

As for "they have the right to bash you", you bash them back/first depending on the cases. If you can bash them, so can you and the reverse is also true.

Thing is : MVPs are held to higher standards because they're not regular posters. They're MVPs. If you're arguing about how they "just regular posters anyway" then remove their MVP titles, since it adds nothing to them.

Do you know what feedback is? Simple question. Because being Snarky/Ironic/etc is feedback IRL. It tells you how people perceive you, and how you might want to change yourself to be better.

Except, you're acting as if everyone that disagrees with you is the problem, and that points to you being the general problem. Remember : There's only one constant in all interactions you have with other people and that's you.
472
10/28/2018 09:01 PMPosted by Mav
10/28/2018 08:49 PMPosted by Snowfox
...
I'm not really clear on your thesis there.

You seem to be arguing that all feedback is necessary.. but that just means everything -I- write is necessary.. because it's feedback too, and all feedback is necessary.. so no matter how many positive things I write or defense of the game.. or attacks on the game.. or snarky things.. it's all necessary and you're arguing for my right to do it?

Or were you arguing for the right for people to bash me? .. or for me to bash them back?

It seems like you're just arguing for reality to be reality.


Yes, all feedback is necessary. Your feedback is, too.

Thing is, you often don't give feedback, you merely attack anyone that disagrees with you and go with a "So what you're saying is..." approach, which shows complete dishonesty.

As for "they have the right to bash you", you bash them back/first depending on the cases. If you can bash them, so can you and the reverse is also true.

Thing is : MVPs are held to higher standards because they're not regular posters. They're MVPs. If you're arguing about how they "just regular posters anyway" then remove their MVP titles, since it adds nothing to them.

Do you know what feedback is? Simple question. Because being Snarky/Ironic/etc is feedback IRL. It tells you how people perceive you, and how you might want to change yourself to be better.

Except, you're acting as if everyone that disagrees with you is the problem, and that points to you being the general problem. Remember : There's only one constant in all interactions you have with other people and that's you.

Okay nevermind. You just keep wanting to talk about me.

I wanted to talk about the MVP program and the people in it right now and the things they face... but.. you've got something against me, and I might engage that sometimes but not this time. So.. have a great night.
473
10/28/2018 12:42 AMPosted by Tewa
They used to have the Crying Peon who would ask you why you were leaving when you canceled. And also they offered to have you talk to a GM about what you were unhappy with, to see if they could convince you to stay.


Then a while ago, they got rid of the Crying Peon and the GM talks and just switched to "okay - bye".


;-;
I forgot about this
474
Yeah i will prob get one of these soon as my time is coming up. I am getting frustrated with some things they made changes too that make playing worse.
475
I wonder if classic will beat current wow subs
476
10/29/2018 09:04 AMPosted by Magaloku
I wonder if classic will beat current wow subs


If this happens and continues for a significant period of time expect SWEEPING CHANGES in both the design and staffing of Modern WoW.
477
10/26/2018 05:25 PMPosted by Hazzulu
You clearly jumped into a conversation you were not properly following. My specific exchange was about how there is a role for positive feedback. Someone claimed, as a general statement, there is no role for positive feedback. Do you agree with that? I did not. I never said positive feedback was necessary and without it negative feedback is worthless. The person I was replying to said POSITIVE feedback was worthless, and I disagreed and showed how it was useful. You clearly did not understand the exchange you decided to reply to and are now making up things so your reply seems more reasonable.


"If you then saying nothing about the things you like, that just lumps those things in with what you think is "meh". All they see of your feedback is "some things are terrible and he feels strongly about nothing else"

It's not hard to understand where you were going there. By your own words you implied that person's feedback was less useful because they didn't include praise as well.

Secondly, you still clearly do not know what a cop-out is. Cop-out is defined as "an instance of avoiding a commitment or responsibility." What responsibility did I have that I am avoiding? I was not asked a question, I am not defending any position or person, so what is it exactly you see me side-stepping? All I stated was the literal role of positive feedback in critique and happened to use a made up world of warcraft situation as an example. I do not think you know what a "cop-out" is.


I'm pretty sure it's you who doesn't understand. Positive feedback is nice, but by no means does the lack of it invalidate the person's critique. Something you clearly implied. The inference is that Blizzard should "side-step" said criticism because there isn't positive included. You can define phrases all you want, you're still incorrect.

Lastly, your examples of positive and negative feedback are, most likely intentionally, seriously obtuse. You list feedback as "i like raids" but give good examples of negative feedback.


As I clearly stated, that "seriously obtuse" feedback is going to make up the majority of what they get; especially when... wait for it... it's not what they are asking for. Therefore, adding positive to the negative really isn't going to help them in the majority of cases. Your suggestion that people should include it because (as you clearly imply) without it the negative has less weight is still incorrect. At the end of the day, it's still simply a "feel good" thrown onto the negative. But since Blizzard asked for the truth, there's little reason to sugar coat it and it does not, as you previously stated (see quote) lead them to infer the person has feelings pro or con to anything else. Sometimes answering the question and only the question is the best strategy.


Once again you're changing the topic of the conversation to match your argument. The topic was about the role of positive feedback in GENERAL. Someone claimed there is NEVER a reason for it. We were not speaking in terms of the current situation in BFA but in general terms. I used World of Warcraft in my given example because we are on a WoW forum, nothing more, nothing less. The exchange you got involved in was NOT about giving feedback to the WoW team. You keep referring to what Blizzard is asking for but once again, my comment was in no way about the current state of the WoW team and how one should give feedback to them.

I also am not sure why you're so intent on telling me what I meant when I have clarified time and time again that I did not say negative feedback is worthless without positive. When I said positive is necessary, I was once again speaking in general terms. The person I replied to stated positive is useless, I did NOT reply by stating the positive feedback is necessary every time you give feedback. My statement was about how if you have positive feedback, you should give it, because it is valuable. When I say "you" I am not referring strictly to individuals but to the playerbase as a whole. If the playerbase never gave any positive feedback it had, that would be less helpful, 100% yes. By no means does that mean ever person needs to temper bad feedback with some good stuff.

Lastly, did you really just try to argue the definition of cop-out is irrelevant to how you used it? Sure, in your specific interpretation of events, my explanation would be a cop-out if Blizzard used it as an excuse to avoid criticism. However that is not what happened. The statement was not from Blizzard, it was from me. The statement was not about avoiding criticism, it was about how positive critique objectively has value and is not worthless. As I cam not Blizzard, and am not advocating for Blizzard to do anything in regards to the community, it is not a cop-out. However if you're going to start arguing that definitions don't matter because you are incapable of being able to admit to the most minor of linguistic flubs, then we're done here.
478
I keep checking my email wondering if they'll email people who have sub time but haven't logged in for months. Never get one.

I'm sure they're just as happy with unused sub time as people playing and enjoying the game. Who cares if they quit as long as they paid. :P

If they can't design the game for flying at max level like they used to, when by the way it had more users, then I'm done with it. Time gating the coolest feature WoW has for 6+ months is no kind of fun at all. Not to mention pathfinder is a stupid way to lock people out of flying in all the newer xpacks for no other reason except petty devs who hate the players having fun in a way they disagree with.
479
10/29/2018 09:50 AMPosted by Zaranthosdk
I keep checking my email wondering if they'll email people who have sub time but haven't logged in for months. Never get one.

I'm sure they're just as happy with unused sub time as people playing and enjoying the game. Who cares if they quit as long as they paid. :P

If they can't design the game for flying at max level like they used to, when by the way it had more users, then I'm done with it. Time gating the coolest feature WoW has for 6+ months is no kind of fun at all. Not to mention pathfinder is a stupid way to lock people out of flying in all the newer xpacks for no other reason except petty devs who hate the players having fun in a way they disagree with.


Just need to keep hitting them on their balance sheets. In a battle between Consumer and Provider, the Consumer will always win as long as they are willing to stop paying and walk away. Everyone should stop buying multi-month subscriptions and go monthly only. Force the Developers to earn your money every month,
480
In all honesty I just would like to see the expansion do well and the realms populated again, hopefully this survey when all accounted for will imply new and better changes for the expansion.
481
8.1 is going to be the last Hail Mary for me. Most of my friends I enjoyed doing content with have either started playing other games or quit entirely. Really the only reason I stay was for friends, as the content just doesn't stand up on it's own.

Only time I log on is to do a few keys if guildies are on, weeklies, and transmog runs, that's it anymore.

We'll see I guess.
482
Why would anyone bother doing that though? So they can ignore that feedback the same way they did when players said all the same stuff in Beta?