To what benefit does this have?
If you take all games and remove difficulty, does it add to the experience? Difficulty is needed for a social experience in WOW.
I’d love to see it become just a standard dungeon key mode (no timer or lives) with difficulty going up to +9/hero gear, then switch to a rated mode from 10 onwards with timer or lives, mythic gear, rating, season rewards for rating and highest key reached, more challenges, difficulty increase. Maybe even rated key only gear effects to help push and complete rated level. Similar to how it’s done with pvp.
This is an oversimplification of the situation. It will take more time for 3 DPS to heal up after a 60% shot than for 2 DPS and 1 healer to do the same. So the appropriate amount of challenge for how often that 60% damage hit goes off would need to be different for each of these combinations.
You keep treating every mechanic as if it’s standalone and there are never any overlaps or coordination with other players. In delves the mechanics are designed that way because solo players have to be able to get through them on their own. But dungeons frequently have mechanics that demand multiple people do something to address a mechanic or combination of mechanics.
And then even with the standalone mechanics, tank busters oftentimes aren’t just the damage dealt to the tank, they enforce positional requirements of the team with cleaves/AOEs. So now the uncertainty over who will have aggro makes it tough to have these kinds of mechanics, at least if you want the mechanic to feel fair.
You simply could not recreate any of the boss fights in Dawnbreaker, as just one example, in delves, except in the 5-man variant with the assumption you have a tank and healer. Yeah you could take pieces of those fights, but the entire experience would be impossible until you reach a 5-player group. And at that point, why not just run the dungeon?
Frankly I don’t understand why this should even be a goal. Nearly every aspect of the world functions better for the situations/individuals it was designed than not. Dungeons are tailored to a group of 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 DPS, it shouldn’t be some controversial thing to suggest delves cannot match a dungeon for level of engagement for such a group. When such a group is seeking an appropriate challenge, the answer should be dungeons, not delves.
So if we’re trying to address the situation that people want to run the dungeons that exist without a timer, trying to come up with a way to make a delve fulfill the same design constraints for such a group rather than enabling the existing mode that already meets those constraints to be played without a timer is questionable to me.
At no point have I disputed this. Nothing in what I’ve said should be taken to be a knock on delves or their potential. It’s just an understanding they were created with specific use cases in mind, and those use cases carry a different set of design constraints than exist for dungeons. It makes sense there are few (if any) “cleave the current target” mechanics in delves since there may not be a tank in the group, but the offshoot is that this reduces the amount of design elements that you can include in delves.
Delves should absolutely continue to be developed for any solo players and groups that aren’t exactly 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 DPS. I am not anti-delve by any stretch of the imagination. It’s just better for the mode for the design to focus on the experiences it delivers well rather than just being a different flavor of a game mode built specifically for a certain combination of roles. At best, it’s duplicative effort to try to turn the 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 DPS delve experience into a dungeon; at worst, delves become less engaging for those who don’t have this role combination due to attempting to make the design accommodate such a group.
As it relates to WoW though, this is a deflection at best. M+ did not take away the ability to run dungeons on normal or heroic. Mythic raid did not eliminate normal raid. The ability to play the game at an easier difficulty was not removed for players who do not find the higher difficulties fun.
I think the DF S4 key squish was a mistake, I do not agree with Blizzard moving the entry point to the mode higher; even in pursuit of removing the sheer number of keys, there were better ways of doing it IMO. But in general, giving the gamers who want to push into harder difficulties simply allows more players to find the difficulty level they will enjoy. Some do like that harder content, and a system like M+ gives them the ability to get that harder content without raising the floor for everyone else. It’s borderline disingenuous to pretend like many of these “rework M+” posts aren’t advocating for the removal of the harder difficulties for those who want it with this sentiment that not everyone likes difficult content; the existing dungeon system already provides content for those who don’t want that difficulty.
With all due respect, the social aspect has been incredibly reduced due to content and features added for the everyday player, not the ones who want to challenge themselves with the hardest content in the game. Guilds are still basically a requirement for any shot at completing the current mythic raid. High end M+ cannot be completed without a minimum amount of coordination even if it’s a PUG. The social aspects of the game are alive and well in the tiers of most difficult content.
The areas where socialization has fallen apart is the content that the bulk of players can complete. The content where the average player floor is so high it can clear the requirements without any social interactions with the other players. You do have a point about the approachability of WoW in terms of the difficulty to get started being a potential issue. But you’re simply barking up the wrong tree by trying to target M+ and other high-end content as the culprit for lack of socialization.
That’s intentional. You see the carry prices this season? 5 tokens worth of gold for a weekly vault.
Blizzard really likes that token/carry economy. They put their thumb on the scale to make it super lucrative. It won’t change until people realize they’re paying for the privilege of being treated like crap by wanna be’s.
Of course! They know how much they make from token sales and they’re not likely going to turn it down if it’s making them money. Token sales equates to subs and staying engaged and all of that.
Its a solution*
3 things
- Set Brann to healer. 3 DPS heal up just as fast as 2 and 1 healer now
- No stress of a timer, take as long as you need to formulate a plan to deal with it
- 3 DPS can probably burn down before getting 4-5 60% hitters going out
Yes, and the people who don’t want the stress of a timer, aren’t looking for the complexities of overlapping mechanics. So it’s a non issue. And there’s not many dungeons that have overlapping mechanics. They have multiple mechanics, but not many overlapping mechanics. Which goes back to: dodge doge, DR, heal up, repeat. Kinda like what delves have. Only difference with dungeons vs delves…dungeons target more people.
And that can be remedied in the XYZ mechanic based on player count.
No, it’s just whoever has aggro. And Brann is set to tank next season as well (see how delves are able to evolve and adapt).
Boss 1. Dodge circles, dodge beams, damage reduction DoT, heal up. Sums it up pretty good for a solo experience. That’s the entire first boss.
Boss 2. Make slam AoE around boss. So now it’s dodge big circle, kill adds, heal up, repeat. Easy enough
Boss 3. Dodge web lines, move poison line and DR, heal up, repeat. Possible with 1 to 5 people.
Agreed. But you’re in here saying people SHOULD have the option of not having dungeon challenges while wanting dungeon challenges. Not me. Instead of changing dungeons and game modes, we already have a mode that will allow exactly that: delves.
M0. And people who “want a challenge without the timer” don’t actually want a challenge because the timer is the challenge. We’ve discussed that ad nauseum at this point.
Sure…but again, they’re the answer (whether truly designed for that or not) to the issues you bring up.
No lie, you might be one of like 7 people who actually do.
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Stop playing wow. People like you with that attitude have no place in MMOs. Cant make 8 cause they arent good? How about they cant make 8 because try hard clowns trying to MDI everything WONT invite non-meta classes. Or if you run your own key, you have filter throigh people like a job interview. Sorry dude… you find that fun? I going to spend my time playing other games and leave people like you here to seethe in the toxic sludge that makes up the M+ community.
630 prot pally is meta
And over geared for an 8.
If anything the person is absolutely lying about not getting invited.
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I just came back from line a month and more of not playing. I’m 635 ret pala, have completed two +12, few ++11, and rest are all +11 all timed. I’m at awe that i can’t get invite into single +12 for like 3 days straight, even from people who have lower rio than mine. Before i went on break i would at least get some invites to 12, now its impossible. I get that thease people want best of the best 3k + rio people to carry their keys but this is just silly.
Complaining about not getting invites when you have your own key is silly too. But alas, here we stand
Getting riled up over something you interpret wrong is beyond silly but here you are, you are one of those ¨omg stop playing if u don’t like something˝ folks that has 0 other arguments. I was simply stating its silly how before my break there would be invites and now there are none, i get people are more geared now and have higher rio but not to get single invite for what is a total of 6-7h of que is silly, and i have never encountered this type of situation in m+ seasons before. It might of happened to very high keys like +25( +15) and above but at a level where +12 is suppose to be its silly, and portraits what has gone wrong with M+ in this season.
I didnt interpret anything wrong.
You cant get invites. Solution = make your own group.
Using entire extremes and hyperboles is also silly, but here we are, again.
Yet it happens. Every. Single. Season
You fell behind the curve. Fairly obvious
Again nothing to really add just arguing aimlessly to my and now that i see many other posts here to prove what exactly? That M+ is fine? As i see you are around 2600 rio now, past seasons around 2900. I’m not bringing this up to try to shame you or anything, but if you are fine with your score and your progress and you stopped pushing( which would explain your free time to attack people on forums), is perfectly fine, but let us other folks who are trying to push express our opinions why M+ right now is not in perfect state. I won’t be entertaining your boredom anymore you silly man.
All the people on the forums that whine about Mythic+ should group up and actually clear some Mythic+ lol.
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M+ state has nothing to do with you falling behind the curve because you took a break.
Thats your own shortcomings. Not the game
As for for getting groups, youre given tools to make your own to circumvent that problem
So you’re here to simply complain? Brush away all solutions to your “problems” so you can continue to complain about self inflicted issues?
Got.it
So what is a reasonable solution?
Are you saying people are wrong for inviting more experienced and geared people?
you don’t seem to be differentiating between “a game that has hard content available” and “a hard game”. WoW is not a hard game in the sense you’re describing. it’s not dark souls. people can level to cap without ever setting foot in a dungeon or raid or doing any pvp. there are people who level by picking herbs or doing pet battles.
you seem to be suggesting that removing any content that might be perceived as hard is going to make the game better. it’s not. taking away options doesn’t give new options to others.
i’m not sure what to say about this other than: that has not been my experience at all. every time i’m in town there are people chatting. yeah, some of them are just trolling, but for the most part it’s pretty chill.
Yeah 9 out of 10 times if i start a conversation beyond “hey” or “/wave” i get reciprocated
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You should delete the whole post anyway, not a good look…