Sorry that’s not going to be enough.
Personally I just hate the talent. It was the one thing from the entire rework I wish they had removed/replaced with something more interesting.
It feels bad not taking it because of the extra burst potential and saved GCD’s over a long period of time. But on the flip side I also hate finishers at 4hp because it feels awkward after years of muscle memory with 3hp finishers.
Technically I like JV at 3 hp even though it hits weaker, it means I get to do more finishers overall to take advantage of the flat 6% heal with greater frequency.
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They needed some survivability but they are now by far the tankiest class and bursties class option hence the 75% ret encounter ratio in rated pvp.
Ret needs to be a little tanky. Any immobile melee spec should be somewhat tanky if they’re easy to kite.
I’ll agree the burst is over the top but that’s literally the only issue imo. Ret feels better to me than it has in a very long time mechanically.
The rotation feels smooth. I’m considering maining it for M+ if they don’t screw with the damage too much. Idk if I’ll play it much in pvp but it’s a possibility.
Maybe, maybe not. Either way, these are a very significant number of changes for a single balance patch, probably more than any we have ever had. If you want to do more changes, I would suggest starting at these and see what the results are before posting further changes.
Reasonable reply. Either way i am certain they will have to do something so better sooner than later before my alt ret has to become my main ret.
Ret feels better to everyone. That’s why you will encounter them in literally almost every game now.
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That got nerfed near the end of the PTR. Blessing of Dawn is baseline 10% for ret only, 20% for hpal/prot.
Supplemental talent adds the other 10% to make it 20% total.
oooh okay. Didn’t know that lol.
Yeah they stuck it in there around 3 weeks ago when they first started “tuning” (aka nerfing)
Most of this is overnerf and is in line with the stupidness Blizzard usually does. They should slowly pull back damage with obviously Ire (50% is probably fine there), Dawn, and maybe FV because range, insta bursting people for 170k is pure meme. For JV, reduce the stun portion to like 10-15%. Another intelligent line of balancing would just be to reduce Wings damage gain by 5-10% since they foolishly reduced the CD by 60 seconds and didn’t suspect that might break the class???
Seriously, you guys have no idea how to balance, man. This is legit people that are on the Blizzard design team. You take an ability like JV and suggest flat removing 25% of its damage. You actually suggested nerfing Vanguard of Justice, a talent that already puts you at a detriment, by 50%, effectively making it useless. Nerfing the talent is beyond clueless, if anything, you would nerf FV/JV values slightly.
This is EXACTLY what Blizzard does–swingy 0 IQ changes with no thoughts on the repercussions. They took Ret paladin, a class most people just asked for a little better mobility and an actual survival spell that wasn’t garbage/dispellable. So they thought a “rework” would be cooThey provided Divine Protection… but also various stamina buffs, armor buffs, healing buffs, insta casts, life leech, buffed Sacred Shield (this was fine), put wings at 60 seconds (would be fine if they just reduced the damage as well).
Oh btw, don’t get me wrong, I am loving it, I love having my class be fun again that I’ve played since BC, and enjoying cleaving people to 2.7k rating but this company is just sad sometimes. You get broken stuff like this which I’ll play the hell out of, but then they will ruin my other class, Shadow Priest, with one of their horrid rework ideas that will swing the opposite way cus it’s a coinflip when you throw **** at the wall with no thought or logical approach.
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You are either delusional or do not understand how GCD/math/sims/synergy with other abilities work. Vanguard of Justice is currently a mandatory talent in every M+ dungeon and VoI. Even though it may seem like it is a decrease in DPS due to the 4th holy power providing “less” damage, in reality it increases your dps.
And yes, I am suggesting that this talent is to be made useless in PvP, unless it’s redesigned where the additional damage is turned into a DoT or something.
This.^
According to logs, Paladins only received a marginal increase in dps.
We’re doing better because our survivabilty has increased and our rotation now is far smoother, thus we don’t have to worry about getting knocked over like a wet noodle and can finally concentrate on our dps as opposed to concentrating on staying alive.
Thus the illusion of being OP to other classes.
We’re finally competitive, NOT op, but it never ceases to amaze me when people ask for a nerf of their own class.
Yikes.
Im really looking forward to the april fools posts where blizzard lists 500% buffs to other classes and makes a comment about “putting them on par with ret”.
There are literally hundreds of screenshots of rets doing 50-60k dps, the vast majority of it being single target. The fact that the class COULD get a 50% nerf (i hope it doesnt)
And still not only be viable, but strong, is just one of many commentaries on why its broken.
Our dps is no greater than Arms Warrior and Rogues just to name a couple. Yet, they’re S-Tier in damage and no one is crying about them. But Ret finally becomes competitive and the sky starts falling.
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These look acceptable, I complained about Dawn stacking since it first was introduced.
Everything else no thanks.
This makes the talent not worth taking, that extra HP you have to generate and use is almost not worth it at 20%. I don’t like VoJ because I’m used to building and spending 3, but it would need to be replaced with a different talent if just made useless like you suggest.
In a game where you deal 5 million damage, 6% leech is equivalent to 300k hp, before modifiers like dampening and ms. 300k hp is worth about 68% of the ret’s hp with Sanctified Plate. For Justicar’s Vengeance to heal that much, you need to cast it 12 times only, again, before modifiers.
If you can’t cast JV 12 times in a 5 million damage game, I think I know why you might think ret is not only balanced, but underpowered. For everyone else, 6% hp per cast is much better.
You’re right, wasn’t really thinking it through. I forgot it’s not 6% damage, and that its HP%. No need to be rude.
this is just very good, mr Urthemeil actually knows what he is doing and is high IQ.
rest who dont agree with him are either trolls or low on brain.
wooosh… that flew over your head. Obviously, the talent increases your DPS or else why would people pick it? Your idea in nerfing it is egregiously because it’s a talent that needs to be strong so that the damage outweighs the increase in resource…