277 ilvl icc nurfs with rage gen nurfs, armor pen value nurfs, deep wounds nurfs that we never had in wotlk, 10 percent tg DMG nurf when droods are crying about 5 percent on a PROC…
You just hate warriors so much lmao in real wotlk we never got a nurf until togc yet we have full 277 icc nurfs since PRE PATCH
you fully support pallies and droods getting buffed even though they were strong in icc so they aren’t garbage but you fully support warrior nurfs and never want to see us succeed. More people hate wars now than ever.
I used to love feral, when me and my group were setting up, we decided to cheese it and dung with nothing but druids, and I love feral. But, man those first 30 levels were so bad I went to shaman, then I moved this toon over to the alliance cuz I missed her.
Shaman may be godly, but This lady here is one I shall not abandon.
This is a really horrible take, imo. People were happily playing Feral the way it was, and it didn’t need any changes to begin with. It was fine.
For some reason, they decided they just had to mess with it, and make changes. This made the playstyle easier, and less quirky, which reduces the fun of it for some who were just having fun playing a spec they like.
Then what? Oh… you are still enjoying playing feral? Well… can’t have that, let’s take a measurement of the overall fun people are having, and let’s do something to reduce that.
There should have never been any changes, imo. Bad job all around, but making up for changes with more changes that feel bad is even worse.
A lot of people were unhappy with feral having to do the different weaves else it wouldn’t have gotten changed and people wouldn’t have praised it so much. Same goes for trapweaving. I do enjoy going in melee to trapweave but lot of people do not like the difficulty of it. At the end this type of change is very subjective.
So what you’re saying is if a lot of people express their unhappiness, things will change?
Anyway, it’s my opinion that they should not have made any changes. They certainly shouldn’t be making changes that make specs less fun to play, which is precisely what this change is.
They’re nerfing a buff they did by changing the gameplay. Because they never intended it to be a buff. If your fun is to be top 3 dps then you should be ready to reroll each tier in wow.
It was a buff because of the way they did that change of gameplay.
They made a quick change by making it a glyph because it was seen as too strong of a buff. And now we’re seeing the final tuning of it.
No, they made a quick change by making a change to a talent, but they reverted it, then they tested the glyph on the PTR, months ago before introducing it, and after apologizing for making snap changes, and admitting that they should test things on the PTR.
Or, we could just be seeing a ridiculous solution to a non problem that reduces fun.
If fun is being top dps then you will always be miserable when they do balance and they will do balance. It’s an unreasonable expectation. It’s not their problem it’s a you problem.
The order of changes they did was still for them to do nerfs because it was a major buff.
No changes at all would have been the most fun, imo.
I don’t like that they are making changes. I even more dislike that they are making more changes. If they wanted to have changes to classes throughout the expansion in a Classic expansion, then go through original patch progression, imo.
This is not fun. I don’t like it. I’m not enjoying it.
The curse of game dev, they cannot not iterate on something they perceive a problem. Even if the problem is something that can have a greater good side.
The worst part of this change is the degenerate gameplay that’s being simmed to combat it. I actually think this change is going to make things worse for Ferals that want to perform well if it’s optimal to delete a glyph mid fight.
Doesn’t help that the nerf is appearing to be multiplicative with SR and naturalist so it ends up being much larger than a 5% physical damage nerf.
Because this thread and this topic is a lot of generalization, can we discuss precisely what the issue is with feral damage and/or rotation the way it is now?
Is there any technical documentation or data we can link to, such as logs, sims, formulae, etc.?
As I see it now, Feral isn’t ahead of everyone else by 5%, and we don’t see 5% dmg nerfs to those who are. E.g. are we going to see a 5% spell damage nerf to a fire mage glyph?
Probably not, because that seems absolutely ridiculous, and certainly not like anyone would find that change fun.
You’re just going in circle if you are asking me the question I already have answered that.
This is rectifying the change they did. Arguing if it should be made would also be arguing if they needed a buff before, which they didn’t.
I’m asking for specific technical details. Do you have something you can link to? Sims, Logs, etc. or something that I can replicate on my end to better understand what the “issue” is with Feral DPS that it needs to be nerfed by 5%?
If you’ve already answered this, would you be so kind as to simply quote your answer, so I can find it easily?
They already did this with the glyph.
I’m not arguing that they should have made any changes. Indeed, I’ve stated several times that they should have just left feral alone. It is, imo, rather mean to make changes to classes this close to the release of ICC. People could have known months ago exactly where they stood with their class and what they were getting themselves into.
In any case, my stance is first that they should not have made any changes, second if they were going to make any changes, they should have followed original patch progression, and third since they have made changes, and haven’t followed patch progression, there should be some reasonable justification as to why they are making any changes, and I don’t think there is or has been any for this change.
Note: a hand-wavy, “it’s a nerf to a buff” isn’t a reasonable thing. What precisely is THE ISSUE they are attempting to correct with a 5% dmg nerf to feral?
If you really want to know the math about it you can go on the druid discord. But I’m guessing you don’t even use it.
Which wasn’t enough.
The issue is feral does scale way more than intended with the buff they gave it. I’m not a dev if you want a dev answer feel free to communicate with one.
I’m on the druid discord. I’m in the #wotlk-feral-dps channel. What info, precisely are you referring to?
Can you provide any details here? If I question this, can you provide me a way to verify it?
No kidding.
EDIT: Here’s a video with a bit of a breakdown of the change:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y60alJTLDHQ
Summary of Video
Glyph of Omen of Clarity was changed. Still procs Omen of Clarity with Faerie Fire, but now also decreases all phys dmg by 5%
They originally nerfed the Naturalist Talent from 10% to 5%, but had to walk it back, because it additionally affected PvP and Tanks.
He notes that the original post addressing this mentions threat being an issue from bearweaving:
And questions why they choose Faerie Fire (with a 6 second cd) to proc OoC, and not something like say Cower which is already a threat reduction, and has a 10 second cd…
He further notes that the change wasn’t intended as a buff to feral, but rather the get rid of bearweaving, because the mechanical complexity was higher than they thought it should be, and the threat generation was too high, and notes that while the change removes bearweaving, ferals still generate a lot of threat so he calls this change an overall failure.
He also notes that it should not be a surprise that this nerf was coming.
And here is a link to a spreadsheet with links to all the sims:
