Blizzard Getting it Right

This is a hilariously bad take. It’s actually much worse to take an action that pisses off more people than if they did nothing at all. You seem to fail to grasp the concept of extent; one choice pisses off MORE people than the other.

Why? Why should I care if they piss off cheaters and exploiters exactly?

Hmm. Were talking about what will piss of more people? Or just that everyone’s going to be pissed off regardless? :thinking: You seem like you fail to grasp context. I’d be perfectly happy to discuss that issue with you, but I don’t take too kindly to you telling me I have a bad take when you’re taking my posts out of context.

You zoomers sure are impolite.

What are you talking about? We are talking about RDF, not “cheaters and exploiters”.

We are talking about what’s best for the community. Siding with a minority over a majority and making a deeply unpopular decision because “oh well someone will be pissed off regardless ¯\(ツ)/¯” is a cop-out.

You boomers sure are confused.


If we were on the same server I’d totally group with you! That sounds fun!

Ahh, my bad. I’m discussing stuff in so many different threads, it can sometimes be easy for me to forget which one I’m in.

But every other aspect of my post still stands. I personally don’t care how many people are pissed off about this, because it’s a good change for the game. Not to mention, this is only going to actually affect people for less than 25% of the content in Wrath.

Sure. And dungeon finder is not.

Yeah, majorities don’t determine what’s best.

It’s not my impression that this decision was “deeply unpopular”. But if you have some objective evidence that points to the opposite, I’d love to see it.

Yeah, that’s not what we were talking about. Once again, context is important. I said nothing about majorities or minorities. I said “Everyone’s really angry” in the context of the forums. That has nothing to do with whether the majority of people agree or disagree with the decision.

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It’s not a good change for the game. Only out-of-touch gatekeeping purists think so, and many of them won’t even play WotLK because they hate it for other reasons. They are generally the sort of people who insist that any and all changes beyond Classic were automatically bad. The same people also want dual spec gone. We were just unfortunate enough for one of those boomer dads to end up as the lead classic developer.

It is, and community opinion is largely in favour of it.

There’s no objective metric at all for declaring a removal of LFD to be “what’s best”. It’s entire feelycrafting BS, and again it’s a change aimed at appealing to people who largely don’t like WotLK regardless. It’s a hilariously misinformed and idiotic decision to make.

These classic servers are meant to be authentic museum-piece experiences of the original expansions. WotLK had dungeon finder, as should the classic server version. LFG was a good feature because it kept entry-level dungeons relevant. This was especially important since LFD was added in 3.3 and the game would go into a year of no content before Cataclysm. We see in Burning Crusade what happens when forming dungeon groups is tedious: people stop doing them and the whole “social aspect” that they’re apparently trying to preserve disappears.

There’s no direct gauge on the popular opinion on this issue because only Blizzard can get an accurate sample of that and they neglected to ask about this most contentious of issues in any of their email surveys. Either they were stupid enough to believe the community opinion was so one–sided against LFD that it wouldn’t be controversial, or they figured that asking about it in the surveys would give away their intention so they decided to deceive everyone instead. Either way it’s not good.

In any case what we do have is forums including this one and the classic WoW reddit. There are some polls created but, let’s be honest, those aren’t going to be representative samples (that’s good for your side because all the polls are heavily in favour of adding LFD). But notice the sheer volume of pro-LFD posts and the votes in favour of them. They always receive the most likes and positive attention. On the very announcement thread of WotLK classic the first comment saying they should have LFD in WotLK classic has about 8 times as many likes as the announcement post itself.

This looks very similar to the flying debacle in 2015. In that debacle they also got duped into catering to a vocal minority who insisted flying was bad (another terrible take BTW). They started off WoD with no flying, planning to have it in a later patch, and when the voices on the forums still looked about balanced between flying and no-flying (and in fact on MMO-champions most were against flying) Blizzard assumed they were on the right track and revealed that they would in fact never have flying again in the current content.

Well, as it turned out, the majority did like flying and the only reason they weren’t dominating the discussion on the forums was because they were under the impression that they were getting flying soon. When it was revealed that they weren’t and Blizzard sided against them, they all came to the forums at once. I remember back then the forums showed 50 threads on each page and on General Discussion literally the entire front page was all threads demanding flying. The pressure was so overwhelming that they relented.

This looks similar in that for a while it looked on Burning Crusade Classic Discussion and /r/classicwow that anti-LFD was the majority. The people supporting it (like me) didn’t show up because… we were going to get it in WotLK, right? But now Blizzard again sided with the obnoxious purists and it’s clear what the majority actually thinks (pro-LFD).

What you said was “It’s so much better for them to take action that will piss people off than to do nothing and still piss people off.”. That’s an ignorant statement. Because taking the action pisses more people off than not doing it.

Excuse you where did I ever say I was “anti-LFD” ?

I don’t post on these forums often. I’ve encountered Zipzo and they’re pretty bad, but I think you’re right that it does like like Aurumai gives Zipzo a run for their money.

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I’m neither of those things, and I fully agree with the change.

I’m very curious, what do you actually think “gatekeeping” means, and how do you think it applies to this situation at all?

I don’t hold that view, and I’m curious as to why you’d bring that up in this discussion. Are people in this thread saying that?

I have literally never seen anyone on these forums say they want to see dual spec removed from the game. Whoever this mysterious group of people you’re talking about is, I don’t see why you’re bringing them up. They are apparently vanishingly rare, and I don’t see how they have anything to do with the discussion of dungeon finder’s removal from the game.

Which community are you refering to? Because actual, unbiased statistics do not exist on this topic. I’m very curious where you’re getting this highly priviledged inside information.

I disagree. Time and quantity are both objective measures, and dungeon finder was in the game for less than half of Wrath’s lifetime and less than 25% of its content. Therefore, objectively, dungeon finder isn’t iconic to the Wrath experience.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Just in my own experience, I’ve seen many threads here on these forums threatening cancelled subscriptions if they don’t get dungeon finder. On the other hand, I don’t think I’ve seen a single thread stating that someone was going to cancel their subscription if dungeon finder was included in the game.

For most of us who don’t want dungeon finder, it’s not a make-or-break issue. Most of us will play the game whether it has dungeon finder or not. Because we care about the content itself more than one discrete feature.

That depends on what you mean by “authentic”. If by that you mean “no changes”, then you are patently incorrect.

No it didn’t. A dungeon is “relevant” if people will go out of their way to enter that specific dungeon. Just because you happen to enter a dungeon as a result of a random dice roll, it doesn’t mean that dungeon is relevant. Dungeon finder did absolutely nothing to change how relevant any of the dungeons were.

Then I’d probably stop passing your conjecture as factual statements if I were you.

Well you said it yourself, they’re not representative examples.

And just to be clear, I’d disagree that it’s “good for my side”. I doubt that you’ve read many of my posts and I wouldn’t ask you to, but I’ve always told people that you can’t glean any useful information from player-created polls on forums (which are the most poisoned wells imaginable, by the way), even when the numbers favor my stance on it.

I do think it’s somewhat telling that we can’t really have a discussion on the topic (I’m not talking about you specifically) without people grasping at those very straws. The fact that these conversations will usually end in some circular argument over my preferences vs yours, or “Look at all the upvotes!” telegraphs a lack of reasonable argument on the pro-dungeon finder side, I think.

Sure, but I think the forums right now are proof that the vocal people who wanted dungeon finder aren’t letting go of this. I’m honestly not entirely sure why you bring this up.

Correct. In the context of the forums. My point was that I’d much rather see Blizzard taking action than to just sit there and let the game rot on its own. I was talking about the fact that they continue to make decisions that upset the loudest part of these forums, regardless of all the backlash they’re getting for it.

How so?

That person is obviously delusional. Saying that we’re the same person :rofl: I wouldn’t put much stalk into it, they obviously haven’t ever read any of our posts.

Heh, I appreciate that, but I actually think Zipzo is very reasonable and often actually words things better than I do. It’s a shame that we’re so misunderstood. I feel like Zipzo and I are probably the least troll’ish people who actually have really long-form discussion on these forums. At least among the people who think like us.

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Is your name Bonerover like “bone 'r over” or “bone rover”?


Yes, that does sound absolutely idiotic, yes.

Simple answer since you’re still here: None of the posts you dredged up and quoted have ANYTHING to do with what i accused you of. You’ve linked me irrelevant posts. On top of that blunder, you spent way too much time doing it to the point where i actually pity you as a person.

Let me spell it out for you: You’re a hypocrit if you support this change while arguing against LFD. A simple look through your post history shows where you stand on that, and its all i need to see to know you’re a big hypocrit. Quoting a bunch of completely irrelevant posts does nothing to convince me otherwise.


If you’re going to play this game and hop around on your alts, at least try harder instead of replying to your own posts in your own thread directly after :rofl:

rofl no. This is exactly why an automated group system would be a failure.

Use your brain.

I think you are confusing me with someone else, because this is the only toon i post on the forums on since cata.

Occassionally i post on my classic main when people ask me to, but thats about it.

Dude that name tho… is this allowed lol?

Blizzard got it right in 2008-2010.

I chose the name because of how i felt blizzard was treating hunters at the time, late cata when they stealth nerfed hunters like 10+ times through cata with no patch notes on it. Wouldn’t have been upset about the nerfs if they just out them in the notes

It also works with the heirloom helm this character had on lol.

Sorry man i was replying to the OP and his name.