Oh yeah, that’s another thing we have in droves.
Me, I love the way arcane plays right now. As someone who raids and does M+ with both ret and arcane, I can tell you Ret’s multiplier stacking is not the same as arcane’s.
I hope they add more ways to play arcane for those that used to love 1111 3 11 3 11 3 11 2 1111 playstyle (I am one of those that used to love that) but arcane’s current playstyle/niche is very unique and satisfying to master.
I don’t really mind Arcane’s playstyle itself, but we definitely have too many cooldowns we stack. At least [Siphon Storm] should be taken out of the equation.
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Ehh strong disagree as a frost mage player since Wrath.
They’ve gotten lazy with both fire and frost’s design. It’s all just “your spec is this dps cooldown, increasing its duration and reducing its cd to get as much uptime as possible”
And your damage outside of RoP and Combustion/Icy Veins? Literally a joke. If you drop any uptime on Icy Veins your dps goes to the floor. You are only competing with other dps keeping 100% uptime on your damage cooldown ability. That’s not good design.
Make both of them actual dps cooldowns and bring up the baseline damage of the rest of the toolkit, and like OP stated make our other abilities stronger to add some spice into the spec.
You can’t tell me you would be happy with Frost like this for the rest of the expansion. It’s a 3 button spec in ST. And if you’re doing your job “correctly” on pulls, Ice lance and Icicles is ~60-70% of your damage…and icicles is a passive effect. That’s a joke.
Yes numerically we are fine, but as you can see by reading this and any other mage forum…most aren’t happy with the current design state (hell literally one sign of another specs rework and we get excited…)
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Would have been nice if you didn’t cut off my sentence half way through as you quoted. I was not talking about Arcane at all. Didn’t even mention it once. Just broadly speaking about cooldown and damage multiplier stacking and how bad it feels, but go off and proclaim your love for DF Arcane I guess, lol.
You literally replied to a guy talking about Arcane.
wut
Yes, because he also raised a point about cooldown stacking which is a huge part of Arcane’s playstyle, hell that’s ALL of Arcane’s playstyle. However, my comment made no mention of Arcane at all. Here it is:
It was merely general commentary on the pitfalls of cooldown and damage multiplier stacking. The ramp up before you can actually do damage feels awful and I don’t know of anyone who likes that even if they agree with the end result.
You were just getting prematurely defensive trying to defend Arcane, even though I made no mention of it, because you love the current iteration of the spec and are doing well with it so you understandably don’t want to see any change. I happen to fundamentally disagree and want a different outcome. Nothing wrong with either side’s arguments. We just want different things.
But it would be nice if those of you who are defending the status quo didn’t jump the gun every time someone makes a post on here that you perceive as threatening to the status quo even when it’s clearly not.
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Exactly, up to 3 to me is ok, say Arcane surge, Gem and ToM. Thank god frost and fire do not have the same problem.
Pre-pulling Evocate for a dmg buff feels wrong.
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I’m not sure why I keep seeing Manather’s video floating all over the place. I did take the talent setup for Raz that is shown in the video, but you come and tell me if you can consistently do the damage he does on almost a daily basis.
You can’t, I can’t, and the next guy down the line can’t either.
I appreciate this guy, but he’s also one of those players who is min-maxed to the teeth, and takes part in specifically tailored groups with specifically tailored people, most of the time. Don’t let just a few top apples somehow prove Frost is fine and doesn’t need to be touched. The level of play they’re in is usually in another league, aside from the majority of the playerbase.
All of this may be a hot take, but I really don’t care.
Edit: I’m also not saying Frost is garbage. It’s quite far from garbage, in fact. If played right, you can compete on almost any given fight. I parse very well, for the most part, and consistently compete with my guildies in the meters for top damage. Although, I’m no Manather. You’re no Manather. I appreciate the video he made, and the commitment he’s gained for the Mage community, but I personally just found this video as just sort of like a “fluffer” video for someone who’s basically always at the tippy-top; a league many wish they were in, of course.
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Another nice thing would be making icicles a talent and giving us back frostburn as mastery. Frostburn would be so sick with the kit frost has right now and icicles scaling with intellect might be easier for blizzard to balance than how its working with mastery.
I wouldn’t get too excited. Reworks are few and far between. Just because one spec is reworked doesn’t mean others are lined up also in the near future. For instance the last time a mage spec was reworked it was at the end of wod/prepatch for legion.
Okay. I won’t get too excited 
It’s super easy answer for the issue. The dude had a good group, 4 boosties, and a full raid. Which meant that Raz had a lot of HP. Obviously Heroic is tricky since it’s flex, so one week it might have X hp, then next day it could have more or less. It screws up the timers, since it phases after % so Icy Veins can be tricky to manage.
In mythic where the boss has fix % you can plan better. It’s not rocket science.
If you played frost since Wrath you would know that in Wrath and Cata frost mage was the PvP spec and was not viable in PvE.
The lazy part could be said to any single raid cooldown if you are disingenuous enough. Also any class their DPS drops if they mess up or don’t use their cooldowns, that’s not unique to mages. Also this is the L2P comes into the mage gameplay and differentiates those who can play it from those who cannot. I am more than capable of having a 90-100% IV uptime and staying near/in my RoP. If you cannot, then that’s a you issue.
Arcane/Fire is a burst spec. They would lose their finesse if you were do this, so no ty.
I am totally happy and would be happy. Why? It’s nice, solid and it works,. Also it’s more than 3 button for me.
You have the 3 basic ability, Frostbolt, Flurry and Icelance, but you need to refresh RoP, Frozen Orb, Shifting Power. (and this not including the additional buttons you need to press during AoE) Also aren’t you lot complaining that Arcane has TOO many buttons to press and it’s convoluted as fudge? Make up your mind.
I also don’t give a damn about people around here. 90% cannot play the class(grey/green parses), by your standards cannot even press the 3 buttons in the correct order so why on earth want to make the frost spec more difficult for the poor devils?, or do any relevant content with their mage, like sitting at 380ilvl and not even having a single raid boss kill.
Yes, pressing 14 buttons is def satisfying. Especially when you miss 1 and you lose 30% of your dps.
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That’s very interesting seeing you arguing like this in here.
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I’ve never figured out what exactly I’m supposed to feel when I press Icy Veins.
When I press Arcane Power (or now, Arcane Surge) there’s this immediate notable difference in what I’m doing- some borrowed power gave it haste, but it’s always provided a huge noteworthy damage increase.
Combustion, everything crits. Everything. It becomes a mad dash to throw all of my resources into the drain while the damage amp and crits are rolling.
As opposed to… Haste. Yep, Haste.
Man you are absolutely a troll if you think needing 100% uptime on a dps cooldown is good design. And since you’re gatekeeping opinions here on parses I regularly hit over 90% on all heroic fights.
Glacial spike should be a viable choice, same with ebonbolt, ray of frost, etc. the point to this post and the general consensus is that we should be able to use these abilities and not have massive dps losses. That’s part of the rework we’re asking for.
Again ice lance and icicles being 65-70% of your damage is hilariously stupid when the latter isn’t even an active ability.
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I hope we get some type of rework. Mages defiantly do have a buttons bloat problem. Except the button bloat mostly comes from our utility spells. We have so much utility. Be nice if they can clean up some of it. Maybe combine a spell or two. As for reworking frost, why? Frost is great now. It has a very fun playstyle. Not everyone likes glacier spike. Personally, I would rather them swap glacier spike for frost bomb. Just swap the spells from their current trees; pvp vs pve. I am in warmode all the time and frost bomb is far more useful than glacier spike ever was in pve siutations. glacier spike has too long of a cast time. By the time you get one off, it doesn’t put you ahead of other classes in dps. In fact, it is a total dps loss compared to just letting your icicles fire off when you use icelance. Especially when it does not crit.
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I would love if blizz reworked ebonbolt to replace frostbolt and eliminate the slowing part. Now that slow is in the base class tree, we really do not need it on frostbolt.