Blizzard announced a Ret Paladin rework!

Classes Mage
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This may seem unrelated to the Mage forums. But I think this bodes very well for us Mages!!

10.0.7 will bring a Retribution Paladin rework. This could mean more specializations might see reworks in the coming patches.

I’ve had a feeling that Blizzard was going to rework Frost Mages (and our other Mage specs) since the beta. This makes me so hopeful for the future of Mage and all classes in the game really.

I can totally see them adding the pretty spell animations from Azure Span— the new Frostbolts and other magical spells that looks so incredible!

As far as the mechanics of our class, I’d like to see a bit less button bloat, but I don’t want to lose utility. If Mages could get a reliable form of hard CC I think that would be a tremendous aid in PvP.

I’d love it if Mage didn’t need to rely so heavily on our Barrier spells. I like the spells but it’s like we just throw them on every time they fall off, and that’s just kind of boring to me. Plus the animation just sits there on your character, and it’s purgable.

Maybe Mage’s base survivability could see a buff, either to our sustain or blunt damage reduction, whatever works— then make it so our barrier spells feel like a true defensive. Maybe a larger shield on a longer cooldown? This would help a lot in PvE content like Mythic+ if Mages could sustain themselves just a little better.

(I think a lot of the other casters right now except for Warlocks have a survivability problem to be honest, i.e. Balance Druid, Elemental Shaman— so maybe caster survivability needs to be addressed by and large. Casting in the modern game has become very dangerous and inefficient compared to melee and instant casting).

I would want Icy Propulsion and Thermal Void deleted from the Frost tree. Then give Frost Mages an interesting cooldown in place of Icy Veins, or reduce the cooldown from 3 minutes to 1.5 minutes maximum.

Frost Mage CDR (Icy Propulsion) on our main cooldown feels really bad and unneeded. It’s like Icy Propulsion wants to feel interesting and just completely falls flat on its face in practice. Sometimes you’re unable to use your spells on an encounter for a short time. This can add up, causing our Icy Veins to remain on cooldown longer than it would have, had we been connecting our single target DPS spells the whole time.

As far as Thermal Void. I’d like that spell removed simply because it forces Frost Mages to play the Ice Lance spam playstyle. It is counterintuitive to the Glacial Spike playstyle since Glacial Spike isn’t extending the Icy Veins buff like Ice Lances do.

As far as the Rune of Power spell goes. I personally think it doesn’t jive well with our class and I’d love to see it go away. But if we had to keep it, maybe make the spell a bit less powerful and bump up our base DPS— like they’re doing with Ret Paladin. That or make the alternative a bit more powerful so we actually feel like the choice node is a CHOICE.

Just had some thoughts after reading the Ret Paladin post and I’m pretty excited I guess! I love the Paladin class too so this will be exciting to see on the PTR! :smiley:

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I’m not keeping my hopes up. I think a class rework after launch is going to be a lot to ask for. But I really would like to see the improved version of Mage ASAP.

Your list is long, and that’s going to dramatically make Mages more fun to play. Agreed, 100%!

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Yeah sorry about the length! :open_mouth: I’m just so pumped for the future of WoW. This expansion has been very impressive!

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[Deep Freeze], please.

I actually think our barriers are took weak in comparison. [Triune Ward] would be one way to make them feel impactful or at the very least, increase the damage absorbed by a not negligible amount. As for dispel protection, I feel like an interesting way to have them not so vulnerable to purge effects would be for dispels to remove 75~50% of the total absorb amount or instantly re-apply it at that amount instead of outright getting rid of it.

Yeah, [Icy Veins] just straight out needs a rework.

I really wish they keep up reworking classes that definitely need it, and for the better.

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I just dropped a reply in that thread urging them do extend these reworks to other classes and specs. I hope the pallies don’t come for me for derailing the topic but desperate times call for desperate measures.

I find it fascinating that they touched on all of the pain points facing specs in DF, button bloat, multiplier stacking, mobility and survivability issues, etc. It proves that they do know what the problem areas are and hopefully also realize what a terrible failure the entire talent tree revamp has been. It’s also certainly refreshing for that deafening silence to finally be broken.

These are very early days and I for one have been disappointed too many times before to get my hopes up but as I said in the other thread this is a start. Let’s just hope they don’t stop there and fix the awful mess they made with talents so it doesn’t continue to bring down the expansion. Because between that and the major bugs that still haven’t been fixed with more popping up regularly it’s really sapping the joy from playing this expansion.

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I just want deep freeze. They can leave the frost tree a rigid clone of shadowlands and they can leave the general tree full of bland talents that are also crap to move through. Just put deep freeze in the pvp tree and I’ll be a simp forever.

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It has to be clear that we need some semblance of a rework, and this isn’t a bad sign. Really hope they deal with RoP, but I fear that’s a way larger discussion about the mage role and damage profile in general. Certainly some fixes in each spec tree that could make alternative builds more competitive. I don’t do pvp but I can’t believe we haven’t gotten deep freeze back - I can’t see how it would be at all game breaking.

I’d really like to see other abilities/builds properly folded into the feedback loop (e.g. Glacial Spike, Flamestrike). Really enjoy current Fire (combustion builds SKB charges which end up reducing combustion CD, etc) but having a swath of irrelevant abilities as a result is a little sad.

I’d still say RoP is the main thing I’d like revisited - coming out of raid tonight, the constant movement and stack/spread mechanics vs. staying in your rune range really encourages some dangerous play, especially when you’re tuned around it and basically feel like dead weight if you lose that 40% with any consistency. To move from rune mid-burst to deal with a mechanic isn’t just a matter of losing a few seconds of DPS - it’s a huge portion of our overall damage that’s lost. Less that we’re rewarded for proper rune usage than completely punished for having to make significant movement. (Remember the 3-minute one shot pvp build from vanilla with Arcane Power? At its height that was only 35%.) Skill issue, I know, but not a fun one.

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after rework of druids and hunters i wouldn’t be so happy as ret

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I think its a good sign for mage trees, but MAN was ret pally in a bad place. Like, more messy and busy than all three mage specs combined (coming from an arcane mage with a 70 ret paladin alt).

So many buttons that feel like they have 0 impact. So many glowie procs that you barely have time to hit. SIX gcds of 40 second cooldons you have to hit at the beginning of each fight (and besides wings, these arent calculated or strong cooldowns like arcane’s (might catch some flack for that), theyre more like gain a combo point each second, deal 10%more damage for 10 seconds, gain 8% haste, deal aoe damage…)

I love your ideas for frost, and I think out of all classes mage might get hit with a rework next which is sweet (for the love of god make kyrian harmony not kyrian, same with shifting) but man I’m glad ret is getting a look

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Frost mage is fine, there are some minor issues with small AoE where we need some tweaking. And we indeed need the rework. Rest of the class is totally fine

Leave IP and TV alone. They are the best thing that ever happened to this class.

Also i find it really funniy that people advocating RoP to be gone, complaining about arcane’s hard casting playstyle and SKB-b, but then they want a spell like Glacial Spike back.

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I like SKB! …With Ice Floes. I’m fine to give up my double blink / cast while blinking for that ease. I just think Glacial Spike should have more synergy with the IP/TV system. And I think that as the mobile caster prototype (blink, teleport, no pet, kite in open world), rune of power feels out of place.

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This is a totally fine assesment.

GS could be retweaked so it’s more in synergy with TV/IP.

But to delete IP and TV which makes the class fluid is just pure nonsense.

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Saw it and it’s BS.

Frost mage in legion without IP and high TV dependency:

Literally the strongest spec in the game at the tine.

Also:

In this tier we have 1 boss out of the 8 with downtime and it’s not that bad.

Since frost mage can do damage there if you play it correctly:

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Agree to disagree.

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You can disagree that 2+3=5, only makes you wrong. Gave you logs, statistics where i prove that frost mage is totally fine.

Oh well, you can chose to be in denial.

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Ppl here need to post on general, blizzard foruns almost no exist for blizz devs, class specific forum is just a forgotten waste for them.

I post my concern about it there

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shimmer is off gcd. Blink on gcd feels horrible

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I love TV, just need to change GS to extend its duration by at least 3 sec.

Arcane needs a rework, the cd stacking makes me vomit. It is too much.

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I don’t know of anyone who doesn’t feel the same way about damage multiplier stacking and apparently Blizzard are finally beginning to see it too. How we got to this place in DF when it should have been obvious to developers working at one of the oldest and biggest gaming studios in the industry that no one enjoys having to press half a dozen or more buttons BEFORE they can do any damage is a discussion they definitely need to have internally. Not really a discussion but more of a postmortem because they effectively killed a lot of specs with that decision along with their subscription base.

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