Blizzard addresses PvP gearing, but still misses the mark

Agreed. My 2 cents is below:

6 Likes

If I were to slap a band aid on the system right now, I would:

  1. Increase honor gains across the board.
  2. Halve the honor needed to rank up the honor set.
  3. For players that want to ignore the honor set and just die their way to a conquest set I would give conquest for losing. As long as they put forth some amount of effort in the match.
  4. Final change is I would make it to where the 7th upgrade of an honor piece changes it to the rank 1 conquest piece. That way if you decide to hop into rated and push a rank all that honor isn’t wasted.
3 Likes

Just give conquest for objectives. Not a ton, but like 5 conquest per objective. Give conquest for capping nodes, capturing flags, getting a mine cart, etc… They already have a system in place to reward Honor for these things so it wouldn’t be hard to implement.
I’m also not a fan of giving conquest for losses, but let’s give credit where credit is due.

2 Likes

Yeah conqest for losing isn’t the best idea. But my last point of making the 7th rank of honor gear turn into the conquest base piece would solve the issue without touching arena. Rated players could jump in and get their conquest gear immediately, and randos could get there eventually without any need for conquest. … Randos who aspire to jump into arena will have what most consider the ground floor for entering a rated match (233ilvl)

4 Likes

It was already noticeable! It was already fine! You went from questing greens, to honor blues, to conquest purples. Going up 4 or 6 (or however many) ilvls is not only not noticeable, but not fun

Those two things don’t synergize the way you think they do. How do you expect players that have non-upgraded conquest gear (who probably just came from honor gear) to compete with upgraded conquest gear? Those aren’t as easily overcome via skillful play, but rather simple math. Their ilvl is higher, thus their power is greater.

Here is an illustration which I hope helps you, PvP developers, understand:

Tier 1:
Your weapon is a skinny stick.

Tier 2:
Your weapon is now a slightly, girthier and pointier stick.

Tier 3:
Your weapon is now a small branch.

Tier 4:
Your weapon is now a small log.

Tier 5:
Your weapon is now a wooden sword.

Tier 6:
Your weapon is now a bronze sword.

Tier 7:
Your weapon is now an iron sword.

Tier 8:
Your weapon is now a steel sword.

Tier 9:
Your weapon is now Frostmourne.

I hope that illustration helps… uh, illustrate that there are far too many tiers (when there should only be TWO – HONOR and CONQUEST). Do you honestly expect players to go through 9 tiers of honor upgrading and 9 tiers of conquest upgrading? That is absurd.

The “skillful” players should get titles, tabards, mounts, elite transmogs – not a power boost over other conquest players.

That is all.

20 Likes

Por qué el equipo de honor es una basura a comparación con el de conquista?
Creo que obligan a un jugador que juega puro de campo de batallas a jugar arenas para conseguir algo decente?

I legit can’t believe that this is real. Like… WHAT? 200ilvl vs. 260 is good right now? The change is actually so simple: nerf honor and conquest costs for gear, buff honor and conquest gain slightly and remove the billion different ilvl tiers locked behind rating.

And suddenly what you have is players making alts, feeling weak but gradually at a good pace gaining power with gear and seeing/feeling that difference - I think gear discrepancy is fine, just make the gear WAY easier to get so that people can have stat huge stat progression AND be allowed to make as many alts as they want.

MAGIC, I know

Edit:

Forgot to include this, the above statement is flat out just wrong. If my LIFE was on the line and in order to save myself I had to beat a 200-245 ilvl player one million times in a 1v1, I’d do it.

Because there is nothing they can do; they will be one shot every single time. Characters with lower than 230ilvl are akin to fighting newborn infant newts, you step on them and feel horrible.

16 Likes

I agree.

The counter argument is that the 260 guy “put in his time” and progression, MMO, needs to feel gud, blah blah blah. I do feel that the efforts should reward these fellers with “something”.

Though it’s a travesty of the game that they would have it seep into casual contents and world stuff as all it does is embolden bullyism and entitled behavior.

As far as I remember, even a casual if they played well could have a shot at winning engagements in past expansions. Today that isn’t a reality outside of AFKism or some crazy specs / classes.

Pretty sad reality and those comments by Blizzard only highlight the indifference, ignorance, incompetence, disregard, oof running out of words :slight_smile:

18 Likes

Give these guys PvE item level. Have random BG gear equal to LFR gear in PvE in comparison, but scale PvP item level to a minimum.

There is no way to balance “fairness” when PvE gear progression for rated players is the goal. This massive gear gap cannot be overcome with “skillful play”.

This statement just tells us that they’re willing to drive PvP permanently off the cliff because they want top rewards for top players, and don’t care if anybody else is playing.

This will be disastrous anyway.

Isn’t it the case that elite PvPers want to upgrade their gear faster, and this will facilitate that?

7 Likes

This is the real answer.

But Blizzard wont fix this yet or ever. Too many WoW Tokens are being bought by people for the high arena rated score carries. This way they get “their” gear and F everyone else.

This iteration of PvP gearing for Blizzard is Pay to Win.

2 Likes

Its simply not feasible to have a gear gap that is any less. This is because in order for PvE to be challenging for Mythic raiders, the gear needs to reflect that for progression, otherwise Mythic raiders will just roll through the mythic raid, and there will be almost no change in difficulty from Heroic to Mythic raids. As a consequence, there will need to be this gear gap, otherwise PvPers will just PvE to get that Ilvl gap. 1 honor 1 conq set is apparently too difficult for blizzard.

We have PvP ilvl for a reason! So it won’t impact PVE at all.

One honor, one conquest, no rating, and ~10 ilvl between honor conquest.

Make PvP gearing WoD fast and then it won’t matter if it is next to useless in PVE. If you want to grind PVE for PVE gear, go for it.

There was an idea floating around that the PvP ranks could effect PVE ilvl only, for those who want their PvP gear to be sufficient for PVE. Seems only fair since mythic raid gear works in PVP without penalty (WoD actually nerfed mythic raid gear in PVP so conquest was still BiS, which was amazing).

4 Likes

This is a lie. You knew full-well what PVP players wanted before you even started working on the 9.1.5 update PVP update, but you didn’t deliver; what PVP players wanted pre-9.1.5 is the same post-9.1.5. Either you’re all just a bunch of blockheads that are hard of hearing or you’re deliberately keeping the PVP gearing system the way it is to support token sales. That’s right: we see your game. You’re not fooling anyone.

Pro tip: corruption is bad for business!

Oh my god – you do realize that a lot of those “Positive” responses were from trolls, right? Are you guys really this delusional?

This is fair – I don’t think most PVP players expect you to make major changes to the PVP gearing system mid-season; however, PVP players are still expecting to see some major changes come next season – and by major changes, we mean a lot more than a buff to honor gains!

There are so many things wrong here that it’s hard to decide just where to begin tearing this to shreds.

For starters, I think this sentence really is just as nice way of saying, “We really don’t have any intention of changing anything for the foreseeable future; we aren’t listening to the PVP community, and we don’t care about the PVP community (although we will certainly pretend to).

You need to stop treating PVP like PVE. PVP and PVE are totally different aspects of the game, and they require totally different gearing systems. Power gating, with the resulting gear disparity, is fine in PVE – it is a cooperative game mode, where gear is the ultimate reward; however, power gating, with the resulting gear disparity, is not fine in PVP – it is a competitive game mode, where gear is not the ultimate reward. What makes sense in PVE doesn’t make sense in PVP.

PVP is supposed to be a show of player skill, not player power. Thus, power gaps - if there will be any at all, mind you - need to be minimized significantly to help ensure that skill is the determining factor in a match, not power. This is why a lot of PVP players have been asking for a WoD-like PVP gearing system in SL – and they’ve been asking for a WoD-like PVP gearing system in SL since before SL even launched!

PVP gearing systems should work something like this: everyone can get BiS PVP gear sometime; better players get it faster; worse players get it slower – but everyone gets it eventually. This is necessary to ensure a more balanced PVP experience overall. PVP gearing systems will naturally exhibit gear disparity at the beginning of a season, when the better players get their BiS PVP gear first, and gear parity at the ending of a season, when worse players get their BiS PVP gear last. Two things are needed for this:

  1. Closing the power gap
  2. Removing the rating gates

Smoothing out the climb has done nothing to solve the problem; the power gap remains, and the rating gates remain – all of which is antithetical to the very spirit of PVP gameplay. PVP is supposed to be a fair competition of skill, not power. Player power should not be an exclusive reward in a game mode that is supposed to be competitive; granting %advantages to the winner and, therefore, %disadvantages to the loser is just utterly insane, and flies in the very face of the idea of a fair competition of skill. That you cannot understand this simple concept is quite telling of your incompetency.

We PVP players tend to prefer facts over faith. What you “Believe” is inconsequential. People’s actually experiences are telling a very different story. Have you tried a BG on a fresh level 60 recently, or are you just talking out of your backside? Even with a full set of maxed out honor gear, you’re still going to get clapped – so imagine what it’s like without even that much!

False. There’s nothing “Quick” or “Adequate” about honor gearing; in fact, the best move right now is to avoid honor gearing altogether and just jump straight into rated content. If that doesn’t tell you something is messed up, then I don’t know what will. Sadly, random BGs, epic BGs and Skirmishes – the most casual PVP content there is - practically requires you to be wearing rated conquest gear to stand even the slightest chance of being more than just a permanent corpse holding your team back.

Who is saying this? Maybe back at the start of SL, people were saying this… are you just now reading the beta feedback? Is that why nothing you do makes any sense?

You want to know why it takes so long to gear up? It’s not because of a lack of currency at this point in the game; rather, it’s because you don’t get very much currency (if any) when you lose - and you lose a lot due to the power gap you are so hellbent on keeping in the game!

What is this going to do? Who’s the idiot that came up with this?

Idiot A: “The people are complaining about the power gap and rating gates in PVP… so, what do we do about it?
Idiot B: “Let’s increase the honor gain by, say… 40%.
Idiot A: “Great idea – let’s be sure to implement it no earlier than the next patch and say we addressed the problem. That’s lunch!
Idiot B: “What if they don’t like my idea?
Idiot A: “It doesn’t matter. We’ll just say, ‘We believe we’ve addressed the problem’ and proceed to ignore the PVP community like we always do.

Given your response here, you’ve basically confirmed the suspicions of the PVP community: you’re not listening to us.

18 Likes

While I agree that blue post is worrying for PvP gear in the future, I think the 40% honor gains are to happen before 9.2, as that is a change they can make mid season.

My comment was in response to someone who advocated for no PvP ilvls, but just narrow the gap between top and bottom end.

1 Like

The honor increase did get implemented and it’s actually kinda nice. Doesn’t fix the issue at all, but for the few that didn’t have rated gearing issues we can upgrade our gear faster now so we have more alts to take into bgs against undergeared players

Yay /s

Probably the ones benefiting the most from the honor increase are those going for honor level 500/1000 milestones tbh

4 Likes

Just gotta queue up with some higher geared players and farm randoms for honor.
Hey 1 or 2 under geared players amongst a geared pre made won’t hurt right? :wink:

Give this man a medal and make him a Dev for pvp. How is it that players seem to know more about this game and how it should work then the current Dev’s? I don’t know, maybe it has something to do with the fact that the Dev’s don’t want to listen to anything other then their own delusions on how this game should work.

4 Likes