Blizzard addresses PvP gearing, but still misses the mark

Literally just posted a big thread about this - you are exactly right. They can toy with honor gains all they want. That is just a band aid fix. The cure is getting rid of ranks and having one set of honor gear and one set of conquest gear.


The reason is that it would feel bad if you just dumped 15k honor on gear and the next day they cut the prices by -40%. Increasing the honor gains is fair for everyone and it encourages people to queue up for BGs to reduce the wait times.

The devs aren’t going to do a one set system because it encourages raiders to farm it early tier to get free iLvl pieces (which is what happened in 9.0 and why they made those changes in 9.1) and creates a poor sense of progression. They would also need to increase the cost of items by a considerable amount. It could take 2-4 weeks to unlock a single epic piece.

Just to put it into perspective imagine if instead of being able to get iLvl 200 Korthia gear and doing progressive upgrades you had to grind 9,250 research just to buy the whole piece. You would be stuck with the iLvl 200 piece feeling pretty crappy…

It’d make the gear gap even wider.

compare to just dumping months to years on the honor grind and now they just cut the grind by 40%

except that they already made it so pvp gear scales below pve gear in all content outside of pvp. the only people who want pvp gear are pvpers.

im not really sure what you are talking about here, but my ideal system is one where you walk up to a vendor and buy a max pvp ilvl set from a vendor for like 2500 gold total. then earn conquest to forge custom pvp gear with whatever stats you want the way you make leggos with missives. pvp ilvl is the same for everyone and rating only upgrades the ilvl of your custom gear in pve.


They truly do believe PVP should be about gear progression, and until that form of thinking is changed… PVP will never be fun again. No type of ‘‘council’’ will change that. Warlords of Draenor made the top PVP gear accessible to anyone who was willing to earn the currency… without rating requirements, or 9 levels of upgrades. Rated players complained about not having enough of an advantage/rewards - and here we are.

This is where we’ll continue to be.


this is not PVE!

They have pvp ilvl for a good reason. They can easily make it so PVP gear does not ruin the PVE gear progression, by just adjusting the PVE ilvl.


“Yes, we know that mountains of PvPers don’t like this. No, we aren’t changing it yet because consistency in bad decisions matters more.”

Truly inspires hope.


Me personally, I am sick of the excuses. They knew from past expansions that things like rating gates was bad for pvp. They had it working well in Mop/Wod. I don’t know a anyone that thought they needed to “FIX” gearing at that time.


Agreed. My 2 cents is below:


If I were to slap a band aid on the system right now, I would:

  1. Increase honor gains across the board.
  2. Halve the honor needed to rank up the honor set.
  3. For players that want to ignore the honor set and just die their way to a conquest set I would give conquest for losing. As long as they put forth some amount of effort in the match.
  4. Final change is I would make it to where the 7th upgrade of an honor piece changes it to the rank 1 conquest piece. That way if you decide to hop into rated and push a rank all that honor isn’t wasted.

Just give conquest for objectives. Not a ton, but like 5 conquest per objective. Give conquest for capping nodes, capturing flags, getting a mine cart, etc… They already have a system in place to reward Honor for these things so it wouldn’t be hard to implement.
I’m also not a fan of giving conquest for losses, but let’s give credit where credit is due.


Yeah conqest for losing isn’t the best idea. But my last point of making the 7th rank of honor gear turn into the conquest base piece would solve the issue without touching arena. Rated players could jump in and get their conquest gear immediately, and randos could get there eventually without any need for conquest. … Randos who aspire to jump into arena will have what most consider the ground floor for entering a rated match (233ilvl)


It was already noticeable! It was already fine! You went from questing greens, to honor blues, to conquest purples. Going up 4 or 6 (or however many) ilvls is not only not noticeable, but not fun

Those two things don’t synergize the way you think they do. How do you expect players that have non-upgraded conquest gear (who probably just came from honor gear) to compete with upgraded conquest gear? Those aren’t as easily overcome via skillful play, but rather simple math. Their ilvl is higher, thus their power is greater.

Here is an illustration which I hope helps you, PvP developers, understand:

Tier 1:
Your weapon is a skinny stick.

Tier 2:
Your weapon is now a slightly, girthier and pointier stick.

Tier 3:
Your weapon is now a small branch.

Tier 4:
Your weapon is now a small log.

Tier 5:
Your weapon is now a wooden sword.

Tier 6:
Your weapon is now a bronze sword.

Tier 7:
Your weapon is now an iron sword.

Tier 8:
Your weapon is now a steel sword.

Tier 9:
Your weapon is now Frostmourne.

I hope that illustration helps… uh, illustrate that there are far too many tiers (when there should only be TWO – HONOR and CONQUEST). Do you honestly expect players to go through 9 tiers of honor upgrading and 9 tiers of conquest upgrading? That is absurd.

The “skillful” players should get titles, tabards, mounts, elite transmogs – not a power boost over other conquest players.

That is all.


Por qué el equipo de honor es una basura a comparación con el de conquista?
Creo que obligan a un jugador que juega puro de campo de batallas a jugar arenas para conseguir algo decente?

I legit can’t believe that this is real. Like… WHAT? 200ilvl vs. 260 is good right now? The change is actually so simple: nerf honor and conquest costs for gear, buff honor and conquest gain slightly and remove the billion different ilvl tiers locked behind rating.

And suddenly what you have is players making alts, feeling weak but gradually at a good pace gaining power with gear and seeing/feeling that difference - I think gear discrepancy is fine, just make the gear WAY easier to get so that people can have stat huge stat progression AND be allowed to make as many alts as they want.

MAGIC, I know


Forgot to include this, the above statement is flat out just wrong. If my LIFE was on the line and in order to save myself I had to beat a 200-245 ilvl player one million times in a 1v1, I’d do it.

Because there is nothing they can do; they will be one shot every single time. Characters with lower than 230ilvl are akin to fighting newborn infant newts, you step on them and feel horrible.


I agree.

The counter argument is that the 260 guy “put in his time” and progression, MMO, needs to feel gud, blah blah blah. I do feel that the efforts should reward these fellers with “something”.

Though it’s a travesty of the game that they would have it seep into casual contents and world stuff as all it does is embolden bullyism and entitled behavior.

As far as I remember, even a casual if they played well could have a shot at winning engagements in past expansions. Today that isn’t a reality outside of AFKism or some crazy specs / classes.

Pretty sad reality and those comments by Blizzard only highlight the indifference, ignorance, incompetence, disregard, oof running out of words :slight_smile:


Give these guys PvE item level. Have random BG gear equal to LFR gear in PvE in comparison, but scale PvP item level to a minimum.

There is no way to balance “fairness” when PvE gear progression for rated players is the goal. This massive gear gap cannot be overcome with “skillful play”.

This statement just tells us that they’re willing to drive PvP permanently off the cliff because they want top rewards for top players, and don’t care if anybody else is playing.

This will be disastrous anyway.

Isn’t it the case that elite PvPers want to upgrade their gear faster, and this will facilitate that?


This is the real answer.

But Blizzard wont fix this yet or ever. Too many WoW Tokens are being bought by people for the high arena rated score carries. This way they get “their” gear and F everyone else.

This iteration of PvP gearing for Blizzard is Pay to Win.


Its simply not feasible to have a gear gap that is any less. This is because in order for PvE to be challenging for Mythic raiders, the gear needs to reflect that for progression, otherwise Mythic raiders will just roll through the mythic raid, and there will be almost no change in difficulty from Heroic to Mythic raids. As a consequence, there will need to be this gear gap, otherwise PvPers will just PvE to get that Ilvl gap. 1 honor 1 conq set is apparently too difficult for blizzard.