why increase the honor gained instead of reducing the honor upgrade cost?
honor gained also plays into honor level, something players have been grinding for several years, a flat out 40% increase to honor for a grind that can take months to years is huge
im probably going to get a lot of crap for this but in the early MoP days we had pvp power and pvp resilience. I thought hose were good ways of addressing the pvp issues at the time. maybe we can bring something like that back? also gearing now requires an insane amount of hours to get to the best in slot for pvp gear such as obtaining socketing for the pvp gear. im a returning player still getting pvp gear in shadowlands but it looks like it will take days of playing just to get enough stygia to add 1 socket. gearing in pvp should be obtained from pvping and not farming outside of pvp. this form of gearing turns a lot of people off to pvp and even causes would be pvpers to quit the game, my self included. i only came back because i recently got more into the lore of the game but im starting to get turned off by the way we have to gear for pvp again
Blizzard your post was such an insult. You could have simply told us 4 months ago during the 9.1.5 ptr Forums (when you never responded to us) to go pound sand. You guys are so disrespectful to our time in asking for feedback only to ignore it and then go against it months later. You guys are utterly incompetent. I have never seen the community as unified about anything as we have been about gearing and yet you insist that there must be this horribly designed tier system.
You guys have an entire game based off of PvP skill. OVETWATCH! That’s your game. Do you see tier sets in that game? No. People play because the gameplay is amazing. If you lose, it’s not because of gear. I guarantee you that if you put gear into that game like you have in SL, you would see a major drop in participation. What works in PvE doesn’t work in PvP!
Can you please get somebody who actually understands PvP to run PvP? You are not a small indie company and I am tired of this bs. You guys act like it’s some major fix that needs to happen. It’s literally a numbers change. We aren’t asking for much at all. It makes no sense from a business standpoint, even when you consider tokens and boosting. It doesn’t make sense from a design standpoint and it sure as hell isn’t fun. This is so frustrating. You guys are actively choosing to disregard a majority of player feedback.
Also your council…and yes this is relevant to this topic. We all know that is a pr stunt to make us peasants think you are listening. Preach gaming said you already had one and he is in it. You also have mountains upon mountains of feedback for free via the forums that you set up as the primary source for feedback! You also have twitch and YouTube. You had major streamers and professionals who are in touch with your player base.
Just the fact that you decided to do this council should be enough proof of how disconnected you are to your own player base. As a business, that’s a horrible thing. We are in this mess because you guys are arrogant and do not listen to your own base. There is a major disconnect which is causing this simple gearing issue to be a real issue and frustration that I’m tired of trying to articulate to you guys. Get your act together, stop wasting our time and do your job.
A 40% increase to honor gains has the same effect as reducing the prices. So maybe one change is much easier to implement? Changing the price of a bunch of items/upgrade ranks vs just changing a single buff?
I feel kinda bad for players who are just starting out with their main, fresh 60 (not an alt) and have to get gear for the first time. The power gap might not be insane in a fully upgraded honor set (233), but getting to that point the power gap is massive. You don’t start with this honor set, you have to get it first. Starting with over 100 ilvl gap between leveling gear and duelist gear is absurd (and why I sometimes might feel bad). Getting the honor, and screwing over your team in the meantime, can’t be fun.
For the people leveling alts though, I don’t feel bad. It’s insanely easy to gear up alts right now, and this just made it even easier. If you have 20-30k health imma hunt you down and kill as you as a resto druid
Guess we’ll see how close to honor level 1000 I can get with +40% honor though
The saddest thing this expansion was how poorly the “stat squish” was implemented. Never in any expansion of wow, did 5-10k hp make such a ridiculous difference between owning someone or getting stomped so hard, they beat you with full hp (because their off-heals constantly heal for 30k+ while hitting you for that hard too). I’m glad 9.3 is the end. I feel next expansion its just going to be worse though.
I wonder why they said this. This gives me hope that they’re maybe thinking of re-thinking this in S3.
But yeah otherwise nothing much really except “we saw the feedback that gearing is bad”.
Also, if they’re gonna give us +40% honor, they had best be letting us buy our marks of honor boxes in stacks
What Blizztard meant to say was:
“We foresee a 40% increase in WoW Token sales by adding an increase to honor gains. Keep purchasing WoW Tokens ‘players’, you’ll get the upper hand eventually. Thank you all. Bleep you all. Thanks for your time.”
Now it’ll be 29% less unfun 
Why even have this stupid community council if they are not going to listen?
That’s it for me, honestly wish I did not even resub at this point. This is more then missing the mark.
Literally just posted a big thread about this - you are exactly right. They can toy with honor gains all they want. That is just a band aid fix. The cure is getting rid of ranks and having one set of honor gear and one set of conquest gear.
The reason is that it would feel bad if you just dumped 15k honor on gear and the next day they cut the prices by -40%. Increasing the honor gains is fair for everyone and it encourages people to queue up for BGs to reduce the wait times.
The devs aren’t going to do a one set system because it encourages raiders to farm it early tier to get free iLvl pieces (which is what happened in 9.0 and why they made those changes in 9.1) and creates a poor sense of progression. They would also need to increase the cost of items by a considerable amount. It could take 2-4 weeks to unlock a single epic piece.
Just to put it into perspective imagine if instead of being able to get iLvl 200 Korthia gear and doing progressive upgrades you had to grind 9,250 research just to buy the whole piece. You would be stuck with the iLvl 200 piece feeling pretty crappy…
It’d make the gear gap even wider.
compare to just dumping months to years on the honor grind and now they just cut the grind by 40%
except that they already made it so pvp gear scales below pve gear in all content outside of pvp. the only people who want pvp gear are pvpers.
im not really sure what you are talking about here, but my ideal system is one where you walk up to a vendor and buy a max pvp ilvl set from a vendor for like 2500 gold total. then earn conquest to forge custom pvp gear with whatever stats you want the way you make leggos with missives. pvp ilvl is the same for everyone and rating only upgrades the ilvl of your custom gear in pve.
They truly do believe PVP should be about gear progression, and until that form of thinking is changed… PVP will never be fun again. No type of ‘‘council’’ will change that. Warlords of Draenor made the top PVP gear accessible to anyone who was willing to earn the currency… without rating requirements, or 9 levels of upgrades. Rated players complained about not having enough of an advantage/rewards - and here we are.
This is where we’ll continue to be.
this is not PVE!
They have pvp ilvl for a good reason. They can easily make it so PVP gear does not ruin the PVE gear progression, by just adjusting the PVE ilvl.
“Yes, we know that mountains of PvPers don’t like this. No, we aren’t changing it yet because consistency in bad decisions matters more.”
Truly inspires hope.
Me personally, I am sick of the excuses. They knew from past expansions that things like rating gates was bad for pvp. They had it working well in Mop/Wod. I don’t know a anyone that thought they needed to “FIX” gearing at that time.
Agreed. My 2 cents is below: