“Raid LFM Icecrown Citadel. Must link achievements. At Horde bank side steps. First come first serve. LF 2 range DPS, 1 tank and 1 healer. Whisper me when you’re there.”
Why there was always a big group near the bank steps on both sides every day during evenings. Before the dungeon finder was a thing. Before cross faction, realm, guild stuff was a thing there was only trade chat and linking achievements.
i know reading is hard for you but you said they are clearing without add ons not that they can clear without addons.
none of what you said lines up with my experiences at all. i started a bunch of characters from zero throughout SL with no issues – some of them took like a week to get linked to my main, so it’s not a case of just coasting on my main’s score.
we all started from zero this expansion and again i saw none of what you’re complaining about 
People may use these tools as an excuse to be toxic to others but the addons themselves are not toxic and they don’t breed toxicity. To chalk something as complex and useful as warcraft logs for example as a tool for toxicity is beyond ignorant. Raider io catalogs your experience. “Damage Meters” such as details are actually on hand logging tools with more limited features.
Logging is so immensely useful for dissecting and fixing problems in raids. I can not even begin to explain to you everything you can use it for. Warcraft logs implements so many features to help you identify various things in raid and even in dungeons. Immature players that only know how to use it for one thing are the problem.
All raider io does is it creates a literal representation of your past keys completed on time via a number. If you are experiencing gatekeeping because of your raider IO score then perhaps you are trying to do higher keys than what your experience reflects.
Details is great for gauging your own performance. Kids do abuse this tool admittedly and it was far worse in early wow with frequent links in chat but if you are playing casually and not filtering who you play with you open yourself up to pairing with more immature players that will abuse this addon.
Overall in my opinion if you are having problems with people then play with other people. If you have problems with your mistakes being logged then thats a personal problem.
If you know how your addons are being used and do nothing to solve the issue, then the addon is also part of the issue.
Technically, toxicity is against the rules but we all know how good Blizzard is at enforcing that!
It’s funny because there’s addons to fake achiev links.
addons don’t prevent people from joining groups. the API does not allow that type of functionality.
There is some truth to this. I started with all 2, then 5 the following week, then 8 the week after that, then 10, and 12, next week will be 14/15 and so on. And I never used my own key, not once. It does work, you just have to be persistent and set small goals you can easily reach. It makes the big goal more attainable.
You are blaming a tool for how a small subset of people use it
Raider Io can tell you (for higher keys) if the player has overall key exp and how much exp they have for that specific key, helping when pushing difficult content. yes there are some players who use it overzealously,they would find another way to bar you (link ksm, link current key, etc)
Wcl provides a comparison to how other people are perfomeing, given similar circumstances, and how you can improve IF YOU WANT TO. having raided at all kinds of levels I’ve only used to to kindly help and work WITH raiders to improve their play to the level required to reach their goals. Again this can be used overzealously, but that doesn’t mean it existing is bad
DPs meters are basically the same as wcl with less detail but immediate info.
It really seems like you have run into a few toxic people who are using useful tools to be a-holes about the game and I wouldn’t waste my time worrying about them
I believe the toxicity is the design around where people really need these addons (or suffer greatly).
On the other hand, I do remember Lady Vashj hot potato, which involved a macro. I;m pretty sure that would be a weakaura today.
people used both a weak aura and a macro for hot pot on vashj lol
You know that a system identical to RIO is actually built into the game right?
What do you think the number in the middle of the mythic+ tab is? It’s the game telling you your score. That same score shows up when you sign up for a group - it’s not raiderio anymore, it’s literally the GAME giving that information to the party leader.
too bad you can’t fake raider IO score huh?
Yeah for sure.
Personally I haven’t targeted m+ without loot, so I’ve pretty much done COS (ring) or Jade(trinket).
Zero score on 3 I haven’t done, only a +2 on the other one.
Do you think I could EVER pug a idk, 10? with my io score? Not without 100 declines first lol
I’m 400 ilvl, 8/8 8/8 2/8, can’t join a dungeon. There’s definitely a level of elitism on this very, very boring piece of content.
Nope, nobody is barred from entry, everyone can get a key and statt a group. People only feel like they are barred from participating when they are trying to get into leys higher than their experience should allow, and they cant figure out why nobody will take the to their 15’s when they only have timed 9’s
Removal of those addons would just cause players to find other ways to inspect players. In the past we had things like gear score and link achievement. This is an issue that comes from the erosion of the social bonds of the game.
The social pillar of the game has been replaced with PuGs that feel and are replaceable therefore why should i care about them? This issue will not go away until they find a way to rebuild the pathway towards basic social bonds that used to exist.
This is the root of the matter
I’ll agree that the in-game guild/community finder is trash, and needs a major update, But I think the real issue is how little friction there is to making progress and doing content if you choose to ignore that pillar.
Did you know your m+ score shows up on your characters armory account wide?
You don’t need add ons to see that, and people can see your m+ activity through a 3rd party website, again non add on related.
I think people can only check for raid achievements in your armory if you’ve been raiding with that character.
People are going to be picky and choosy, especially when it comes to higher keys. Just make your own group with your own rules.
There are two valid choices you can make:
You want to be competitive, and so you use every tool you can use.
You don’t care about being competitive, so you ignore the toxic nature of competition.
You’ve chosen a third option, and that’s to be a victim. Your entire post suggests that you somehow can’t use, or don’t have access to these same tools. If that were the case you’d have a point.
‘I don’t want to have tires on my bicycle, and the other kids are faster, it isn’t fair’ pretty much sums up the complaint.
On the idea that performance tracking addons make the game more toxic…eh. I played EQ very early on, and even then people were parsing combat logs to see where they stood, it’s just human nature to want to have as much info as possible.
You’re asking for a world that will never exist, because human beings. You can be a victim, or you can use the same tools.
Haven’t had any problems on 4 of my characters getting into groups with no history. I think you’re being a little over dramatic.
If they removed raiderio you wouldn’t have to fake a score.