What sort of nonsense is this? Some people asked for revisions in classic like dual spec and LFD, which put Blizzard into “#somechanges mode”… which turned them against things like dual spec and LFD?
Nope, this is BS, and it’s incredible how every time I see you posting here it’s bonkers takes like these. They are pandering to WoW classic purists who think absolutely every change to the game post-1.12 was bad because they were mistaken into believing they were the majority. It’s exactly the same as their push to phase out flying in WoD during 2015. They made a miscalculation because they are out of touch and have exceptionally poor communication with the playerbase and no gauge on its popular opinion.
…yeah, actually. It does seem just like that.
Blizzard routinely makes obvious, common-sense mistakes that damage the game. Do you remember the state of the game’s PR this time last year? It took a hell of a lot of pandering to put things back together.
If it would have been fine either way that also means the people insisting LFD killed the game were wrong. It also means there would be no harm in keeping LFD and avoiding the controversy entirely, so this isn’t the slam-dunk argument you think it is.
They can’t stand the idea that devs 13+ years ago made a better game than they ever could in their whole life. That is why they make these dumb changes that no one asked for, so that they don’t feel completely useless and can say they were important because they ‘changed the game’ but all they did was make it worse and milk it for every $$$
Nobody, of my particular disposition, actually thinks that LFD, by itself, singularly, killed the game right after it got implemented. This is a strawman, and building off of a hyperbolic statement made by you.
We believe it was the start of a trend towards design aspects that definitely contributed to its downfall (some, the most fervent, would even argue it hasn’t even had a downfall…).
Ditto, because you’re not really addressing my actual argument.
That hindsight isn’t clear, and if anything hazardously misleading and biased because we have no such comparison as a Wrath that persisted through ICC without DF.
We will this time, though. Then we’ll have our answers.
We’re a long way from “This is a fresh and evolving game”. That claim falls flat when the previous two iterations didn’t see the same growth that they did in 2004-2008.
TBCC showed that the playerbase is far more like the “2nd half of Wrath” players than the Vanilla players.
Does this mean we’re going to be required to use the quest tracking features from 3.3? As it stands in retail, you can’t disable the quest tracking helper features (not completely anyway). I don’t remember how it worked in original WOTLK.
Honestly I’d prefer if I could disable it. I’m one of the dozen people who doesn’t like using add-ons like Questie
This is one of the exceedingly rare situations where I’m going to invoke the logic of “The customer is always right” inasmuch as the customer wants what the customer wants. There are thousands of customers who want Wrath as close to how it was originally, RDF and other QoL features, warts and all. These players don’t want retail, they don’t want classic era, they want Wrath.
And once again Blizzard is saying “you think you do but you don’t so here’s what we’re going to give you instead.”
I remember, it must have been around 2006/2007 talking to a guy at work, who was reminiscing about how much time he had sunk into WoW, and how it was so much fun with his friends, but how time consuming it had been for him, so he ended up quitting after months and months… (it seemed like he had really played for a long time).
This was around the time I was working on my second character that was to become max-level, during the original iteration of TBC…
So, I asked him, “Oh yeah, what class did you play?”
Saying “the customer is right” is not the same as “the customer wants what the customer wants”. These two statements are mutually exclusive. The former utilizes the term “right”, as in, implying that they are correct. The second statement is…I’ll give you, true a lot of the time, yeah. Generally people want…what they want. Yeah. Duh. However, the 2nd statement does not also imply that the customer is correct. It’s possible to want something that…just isn’t in the cards for you no matter how much you moan, nor maybe should it be, depending on where said customer is coming from.
Continuing to say this is needlessly waxing, because I can just say the same thing about the opposite. “Lots of people want this” is so foolishly circular of an argument, and you know this.
I think a vast majority of reasonable adult gamers know that, at a base level, the infamous “you think you do but you don’t” statement is actually true in a vacuum. Now, I’m not meaning to imply that you don’t actually want RDF and you’re just lying to yourself, but if we’re going to talk broad game design theory, I really don’t think it’s a laughable statement. In context, when Blizzard said it, in that specific circumstance, they looked like clowns, yes, but it’s all about the context.
It’s the argument that Blizzard harnessed for why they guiltlessly removed your favorite WOTLK feature, I really don’t care how “weak” you believe it to be, it worked for changing this upcoming classic expansion for the better so if you’re to make any ground at making any kind of reasonable argument, you’ll need to start approaching this “weak” argument seriously, because clearly after months of this lame enriched-attitude approach, Blizzard isn’t really seeing your logic because they’ve only doubled and tripled down since the announcement.
You aren’t winning this war for a reason. You’ve utterly failed to grasp why the change was made, and continue to fail at addressing the concerns of the players who made those changes happen in your “attempts” to…convice(?) Blizzard to backstep.
The only reason for removing DF I have ever gleaned from what Blizzard stated is that they want to maintain the sense of community. If you know of a different reason that Blizzard stated, then please let me know where to find that information. I will never believe the changes were made because of “the concerns of the players who made those changes happen” because the day they announced that Wrath would be coming out they stated that DF was not going to be part of it. That tells me they did not gather input from the player base but assumed most would like the change. Now we are in an extended discussion on what is best for the game, when it comes to DF. You have your opinion, I have mine. Would you have said a thing if they released Wrath with Dungeon Finder from the initial announcement, I seriously doubt it. Deny all you want, but that was the way Wrath was done historically, and I don’t see the anti DF crowd saying a word. They defend the decision now, but upon reading the Wrath notes when announced it was a surprise to all. Well, all except the development team.
Ultimately, the question from me, Pro Dungeon Finder person is this, “How would DF affect your gameplay, Zipzo? Would it cause you any issue at all, Zipzo? If it is cross realm, how does that affect you, Zipzo? If there are rewards for running dungeons, how does that affect you, Zipzo? If I get extra XP from using DF, how does that take away from your game, Zipzo?” Yes, I am directing it to you Zipzo. I have seen you on many threads and I want you to tell me how DF destroys your experience.
Not having DF does affect how I play the game. I don’t run dungeons unless it is with my guild. And that has turned into end game content only. I am still leveling classes I don’t normally play. I would like the challenge of leveling with a group of players at my level range, not standing around while a high-level toon kills everything. When I try to run on a lower-level toon using LFG, I spend what time I have to play looking for a group of people to run, not doing anything else, just looking. I have to decide am I going to quest, farm or sit in LFG chat. DF frees up my time to allow me to do quest or farming while waiting on the queue to pop.
If you need more of explanation from me, ask me to clarify? Just don’t say “go play retail”, that is no answer. I honestly want to know how your game, Zipzo, is affected by Dungeon Finder. If I ever get that answer, I will accept it.
I don’t understand how you have to sit in lfg now. Am I the only one who just copy paste and post a message to lfg while doing whatever I am doing? Why can you not do dungeons with players your level? RDF was only implemented towards the end of wrath correct? Maybe they should just implement it at the end of Wrath Classic then.
