Stop giving false hope, and show some respect for your players time
You specs that i’m talking about know who you are
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Sorry you didn’t tell us, what specs would these be by any chance?
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You know, a lot of people say only a few specs are viable in PvP, but honestly? Every spec in WoW can work if you know how to play it and build your comp right. Blizzard has done a pretty decent job making sure each spec brings something useful to the table, whether that is burst, utility, survivability, or control. Even if you are not playing the flavor of the month, you can still climb if you focus on your spec’s strengths. One of the biggest things people overlook is how important utility and crowd control are. Some specs might not have insane burst, but they bring great crowd control. Things like Cyclone from Balance Druids or Psychic Scream from Priests can completely turn the tide of a match. Those kinds of abilities help set up kills and give your team openings. You do not always need top damage if you can control the game.And honestly, you would be surprised how many off-meta specs actually work well in the right comps. Outlaw Rogue, for example, used to be kind of a meme in PvP, but now it can be really annoying to deal with because of its control and cooldown reduction. Same with Survival Hunter or Fury Warrior. People build around their strengths and make them work, even in higher brackets. It just takes creativity and teamwork. If we are talking about random battlegrounds or world PvP, that is a whole different situation too. Specs that might struggle in arena can be absolute beasts in bigger fights. Arms Warriors, Elemental Shamans, and even specs like Frost DK can really shine when the focus is not as intense and there is more room to spread pressure. Viability depends on what kind of PvP you are doing, not just arena rankings. Solo Shuffle has also changed things a lot. Since you queue alone and get random teammates, it puts more emphasis on your personal skill rather than your comp. That is why you see specs like Demonology Warlock or even Devastation Evoker doing well in that format. You are not stuck waiting for the perfect team setup. You just play your spec the best you can and climb if you are consistent.Rated Battlegrounds are another place where every spec can shine. Some specs are actually preferred there even if they are not that strong in arena. Boomkins are amazing in RBGs because of their spread pressure and control. Guardian Druids and Vengeance Demon Hunters are great for flag carrying. Specs that might feel weak in 2v2 or 3v3 can be absolutely vital in organized battleground strategies.Also, once you start gearing up and really learning your spec, a lot of them start to feel stronger. Specs like Enhancement Shaman or Shadow Priest might seem underwhelming at first, but once you understand their pacing and get good gear, you see their potential. A lot of people quit on specs too early, but skill and game sense make a huge difference. And honestly, the PvP community is always finding new builds and ideas to make things work. Every season you see high-rated players pushing with specs people said were bad. There is always someone figuring out a new way to make a spec viable, whether it is through talent choices, creative comps, or just outplaying the meta. With the right mindset and effort, you can make any spec work.
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Now that’s a big wall!
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I agree that every spec is basically available in PvP. Obviously if you give some B tier spec to a player who has years of experience and is R1 quality this person can make the spec perform well maybe even with some powerful comp perform really well.
But I think the problem is that some specs such as Retribution atm even in hands of less experienced players is capable of performing well because the class/spec is allowing you to make mistakes more often without being punished.
But if you give some B tier spec to a less experienced player once they make a mistake they will feel it immediately.
And I think this is why there is this whole discussion about Retribution. If the class allows you to make mistakes more often without feeling the negative impact on you or your team and basically giving you 1 more chance ( and doing this several times in fight ) that is for sure a problem.
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Personally, I think Enhancement Shaman isn’t a viable spec for PVP until you are really geared. At the beginning, even with full honor gear, you are basically a glass cannon. All it takes is one Arms Warrior or Ret Paladin of equal skill and/or gear to drop you in a couple of seconds. This also doesn’t change after you’ve gotten some warmongering and gladiator gear. Even if you throw enchants, gems, and crafted items into the mix, you still only feel slightly stronger than before, and have slightly more survivability. It’s not enough, though. Those same S Tier classes, even with less gear, can still utterly destroy you. It’s only once you’ve almost entirely kitted yourself out in conquest gear that you feel you can hold your own, but, again, you are still at a significant disadvantage because of low survivability.
Everyone knows blizzard hates mistweavers. They never want it to be up to par with hpally or pres evoker
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I’ll throw some out there for you.
Frost DK
Enh Shaman
Tanks
Augvoker
Fury War
Arc Mage
Etc. Just commit to 1 or at most 2 specs per class for PvP and things become a lot easier on their end. Straight up make the non-pvp specs hit for 1 and crit for 2 so they literally can’t be played.
Blizzard has no clue. They design/tune around PVE then find out weeks later it created rifts in PVP.
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nobody is going to read that
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I took the time to type up a thoughtful reply the least someone can do is read it imo.
FDK, MW Monk, Enhance shaman to name a few. Some specs just aren’t allowed to be good.
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This is a sweet sentiment, but it’s not really true at all. You’re playing at a MAJOR disadvantage sometime depending on your spec. Can you make it work if you totally outplay people? Sure. “Building your comp right” is typically taking a underperforming spec, and playing it at the highest possible level with two people playing meta specs at the a very high level as well. This is what I see practically every time some R1 player limps a bad spec to glad.
Every spec has CC. Every spec has some amount of utility. This isn’t really saying anything outside of using your kit really well with a bad spec can still win games. Sure, but you would problem win more games easier if you were playing something stronger. A really good Outlaw rouge who manages to climb as Outlaw would probably do it faster and easier on a ret pally.
Okay but we have to balance around SOMETHING. Being good in random bgs is fine, but SS is the most active form of PVP right now. That’s probably what they should be looking at when it comes to balance. Again, some specs can manage in super organized 3s despite not being good in general, but that has more to do with the player overcoming a disadvantage than the game being even close to balanced.
If a really skilled race driver won a Nascar race in a clapped out stock Honda Civic that wouldn’t mean it was a fair race. It would just mean he was an amazing driver.
Hi Turad,
Thank you for the reply. While the preliminary presentation may seem to offer a compelling critique of optimistic viability assertions one must consider that the entire framework of what constitutes viability is not so easily distilled into dichotomous terminology the ecosystem of competitive specialization in this case is fluid and complex resisting simple classification into viable or nonviable as categorical absolutes rather than recognizing the nuanced interplay between skill tuning patch cadence and metagame volatility. To posit that underrepresented archetypes necessitate a disproportionate application of mechanical precision may be accurate superficially yet this characterization omits the broader context wherein reward scaling and performance satisfaction are inherently linked to the challenge gradient and to thereby imply that increased effort requirements equate to nonviability is to misappropriate the conceptual axis of competitive equilibrium.Moreover the assertion that only dominant templates possess impactful abilities neglects a longitudinal perspective on class development history wherein numerous iterations deemed ineffective later emerged as formidable due to changes in interpretive utilization of toolkit synergy a phenomenon observable in niche builds that transcend linear value analysis through emergent strategy deployment.While it is true that certain marquee abilities like cyclone or psychic scream occupy a higher tier of general applicability it is erroneous to suggest that other less visible abilities lack transformative potential the valuation of such tools must account for latency interactivity cooldown granularity and context dependent leverage rather than perceived potency in isolation. Referencing the median player experience as a litmus test for balance skews the discussion since competitive integrity is predominantly calibrated against performance at the upper end of the skill spectrum where the macro and micro interactions of each spec are assessed not in a vacuum but in the pressure cooker of optimized opposition and refined decision making frameworksWhen examining compositional integrity the reductionist idea that only suboptimal specs require tailored support ignores the fundamental architecture of PvP trinity design wherein even apex tier specs are contingent on relational synergy and role-specific interdependence thus rendering the idea of solo viability without systemic consideration an oversimplification. In the domain of solo shuffle the emergent performance disparities among specs can be attributed less to intrinsic class flaws and more to the constraints of ad hoc team formation which deprioritizes cohesion and elevates autonomous efficacy thereby skewing perception of spec strength relative to coordinated formats which operate under fundamentally different gameplay tenets. To introduce RBGs as a tangential footnote without due analytical weight discounts a substantial portion of structured competitive content where role specialization and spatial control mechanics offer alternative avenues for spec relevance proving that PvP viability cannot be fully interrogated through a singular lens of arena-centric metricsWhile the importance of gear scaling and player familiarity may not provide immediate validation for a spec it is reductive to treat these elements as barriers rather than temporal investment thresholds wherein high ceiling specs realize their potential only after sufficient experiential and statistical convergence.Lastly the automotive metaphor employed fails to encapsulate the dynamic fluidity of PvP balancing wherein specs exist not as static vehicles but as modular configurations subject to reengineering meta reinterpretation and adaptive optimization making the act of climbing on an off meta spec not an anomaly but a testament to the layered flexibility of class design in a perpetually shifting environment. I look forward to your thoughts on this.
Now try to play Affliction Warlock, which in 9 out of 10 Shuffles gets 3 melee attacks which won’t let you cast and they ignore any healer because they know that no one can heal the damage the warlock Afly receives.
Okay now I agree with everyone else. I’m not reading all that.
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You read it once you shall read it twice
Just as Arcane was getting some play, they gotta nerf it. Even if it’s hard enough getting off the Arcane Surge needed for the burst. You would have thought that given the fact this is an Arcane themed patch, that they would look the other way but noooo.
Definitely need some spacing there. Not trying to be harsh or troll you.
Spacing provides and much easier read.